Red Mile discussion #saferedmile

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

FML, this is exactly my earlier point. He didn't say that. You can be opposed to certain behaviour and also be opposed to hyperbolic rhetoric used to denounce it.

That's not what he said though. He specifically said "anyone who isn't opposed to this." Now granted "this" is ambiguous, but what else would you guess he's referring to in the context of what everyone else is opposed to?

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

FML, this is exactly my earlier point. He didn't say that. You can be opposed to certain behaviour and also be opposed to hyperbolic rhetoric used to denounce it.

Which is EXACTLY why I never engage in these types of threads on ANY of the multitude of boards/sites I frequent. Far too much hyperbole going on and when you try to make a rational and thought out point, there is always that subset that climbs right up your urethra and takes what you said and twists it into the opposite of your point.

And as I said earlier this really all boils down to "Don't be a sphincter." I am not willing to identify on either side of the gender equality fight as I am an Egalitarian. Equality for all in all things. And with this post I'll see myself out and will NOT be coming in to this thread again.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I guess tell him he's being an a-hole - there's not much you can do otherwise. There are going to be a-holes in the world, and all you can do is point out their poor behaviour and hope that it becomes less prevalent over time.

Hell, what do you do if you tell someone not to use the word "fag*ot" and their response is "Go #### yourself you ######. Why, are you a fag*ot? Go back to your boyfriend".

Suppose you heard someone calling a black player "Ni**er" in the bar while watching the game, and ask them to stop, and they say, "Go #### yourself you ######. What are you, a Ni**er lover?"

What can you do?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Sorry, but it's 100% on the people doing the harassing to stop harassing.

Oh, perfect. I don't harass so I don't need to do anything then and just hope the problem goes away?

It is the job of everybody to create situations where harassment is not acceptable. That is you, me, men, women, everyone. A woman calling some idiot out for harassing her or someone else does just as much to help this as a non-harassing man doing it.

If you want to say that women also engage in harassment I'm not going to disagree, but the ratio of men:women doing it isn't even close.

Should not matter. 'The ratio of people harassing:not harassing isn't close either, doesn't mean we should jut dismiss these problems. It's lazy.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Oh, perfect. I don't harass so I don't need to do anything then and just hope the problem goes away?

It is the job of everybody to create situations where harassment is not acceptable. That is you, me, men, women, everyone. A woman calling some idiot out for harassing her or someone else does just as much to help this as a non-harassing man doing it.

Serious question. What about the women who want the attention? The ones that want to flash there titties. They are FAR AND AWAY the biggest contributors to creating such an environment. If never worked, people wouldn't try.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by polak

Explain.

Don't you get what that sounds like?

"Breezys love talking about themselves, so if you can figure out how feign interest long enough to get them flapping their lips on the subject of them,it's super easy to get them to take their clothes off which is probably the only reason you were really interested in the first place, broseph".

I don't know if that's what you meant it's just what it sounded like and given the overall tone-deafness it was funny.

Originally Posted by sempuki

I want you to think about exactly what would happen if someone *literally* said that publicly amongst mixed company. They would kick over a hornets nest at best, get their ass beat for being racist ####wits at worst.

Yeah, because we're there as a society with racism. We don't seem to be there with homophobia and sexism. I doubt you'd get the same reaction for the other two scenarios I posted despite being more or less the same.

What would I do in either circumstance? I would stand up and let them know that won't be tolerated, and I would get everyone around me to concur. The fact that most people would treat these situations differently says a lot.

I would be right there with you if you did, but most people don't want to make a scene and will either ignore it and privately think "what a dink" to themselves, or at best, say "dude, come on, not cool" or something similar.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Oh, perfect. I don't harass so I don't need to do anything then and just hope the problem goes away?

It is the job of everybody to create situations where harassment is not acceptable. That is you, me, men, women, everyone. A woman calling some idiot out for harassing her or someone else does just as much to help this as a non-harassing man doing it.

Should not matter. 'The ratio of people harassing:not harassing isn't close either, doesn't mean we should jut dismiss these problems. It's lazy.

Ahh okay. I totally misunderstood what you meant. Apologies. I agree with what you're saying, but I'd add the caveat that men calling out other men carries a bit more weight than the woman who is being harassed.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Don't you get what that sounds like?

"Breezys love talking about themselves, so if you can figure out how feign interest long enough to get them flapping their lips on the subject of them,it's super easy to get them to take their clothes off which is probably the only reason you were really interested in the first place, broseph".

That's about right. Some people are just looking for sex you know?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That's not what he said though. He specifically said "anyone who isn't opposed to this." Now granted "this" is ambiguous, but what else would you guess he's referring to in the context of what everyone else is opposed to?

I happen to think that as a knee-jerk reaction, branding people who aren't opposed to cat calling or "take off your top" chants as rapists or misogynists is obviously wrong and incredibly counter-productive. The better guess is that they're ignorant as to what they're doing and why they shouldn't be doing it, not thinking about why it's not cool to behave that way, and need to be educated, not tarred and feathered.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Oh, perfect. I don't harass so I don't need to do anything then and just hope the problem goes away?

It is the job of everybody to create situations where harassment is not acceptable. That is you, me, men, women, everyone. A woman calling some idiot out for harassing her or someone else does just as much to help this as a non-harassing man doing it.



Should not matter. 'The ratio of people harassing:not harassing isn't close either, doesn't mean we should jut dismiss these problems. It's lazy.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Ahh okay. I totally misunderstood what you meant. Apologies. I agree with what you're saying, but I'd add the caveat that men calling out other men carries a bit more weight than the woman who is being harassed.

Yeah I edited it.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by polak

If it happens once, does it make the entire red mile some big sexual harassment mecca?



Has anyone been on the other side of this issue?

So one is no big deal? How many before it becomes a big deal in your mind?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Lol to everyone jumping on the anti-harrassment bus..

Bottom line is the girls who participate are as equally guilty as anyone else. They chose the lift their shirt. Assault is a different story and if anyone, man or woman touched another who was not invited to do so, is assaulting another person. That stuff isn't cool.

Bottom line, people chanting does not cause people to do things. People making the choice to do something encourages others to follow suit however.

Girls that dont want to participate, educate the girls who are and Inform them on the cause and effect.

Tell me you're joking.

Bottom line is the girls who participate are as equally guilty as anyone else

Really?

The victim is just as responsible as the perpetrator.

Chanting does not cause people to do things.

Really?

Pack up the "Go Flames Go" chant everyone. It doesn't work.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by sempuki

I want you to think about exactly what would happen if someone *literally* said that publicly amongst mixed company. They would kick over a hornets nest at best, get their ass beat for being racist ####wits at worst.

What would I do in either circumstance? I would stand up and let them know that won't be tolerated, and I would get everyone around me to concur. The fact that most people would treat these situations differently says a lot.

OT but what would you do if it was a black guy talking like that? It probably seems smug but an honest question.

[polak]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

So one is no big deal? How many before it becomes a big deal in your mind?

It's a very big deal but to label the entire Red Mile phenomenon a problem because of a few bad apples is not the solution.

[littlereddevil]

I've learned one thing:

There's always a couple of bad apples who ruin it for everyone. I'm sure more than 80% of the men who go down to the Red Mile aren't joining in on the harassment.

Plus, why you gotta chant for someone's boobies when you have unlimited access to them on the Internet? Talk about desperate.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

OT but what would you do if it was a black guy talking like that? It probably seems smug but an honest question.

Nothing, obviously; people who are members of a historically oppressed minority are permitted to use slurs as against them as a means of diminishing the power of those words. While it's controversial if they SHOULD, that's a question that those communities are uniquely situated to come to grips with.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Not only does it completely dismiss a very real problem, but it also suggests that women are completely, 100% incapable of having any impact on their lives and how they deal with harassment and violence.

It isn't semantics, it's flat out wrong. Especially in a thread that started with a group of women trying to create a less threatening environment on 17th. 'Don't bother ladies, this is 100% on men to fix'.

Bull#### -- a woman needs to do *nothing* to walk down a street and feel safe. If she's walking down a street and suddenly surrounded by drunk chanting men all physically bigger than her and way more aggressive that **is** 100% on those men.

And if there's a woman who shouts down those guys for being jerks, how do they reply? #### you ##### -- and now she's unsafe too. If a man replies, especially a bunch of them, suddenly things are much more evenly matched. The man maybe now is unsafe too, but the lines are no longer drawn around sex.

Someone already aptly mentioned if this was race: what if you were in a crowd with a lone black man having N-word shouted at him. Is that on him to stay away from crowds of white people if he doesn't want to be called that? Is it on black people to stand up for themselves? Or is that on *everyone*, especially white men, to show that these racists are the minority and not tolerated by the majority.

I've not been the greatest human being always, but the way you look at this will change when you have wives and daughters. The fact you have mothers and probably sisters and you still don't see the other perspective is kind of worrying.

[shermanator]

I chanted "Show me your cans for Monahan" to my fiancée at home but it didn't work.

There's nothing more I can add to the debate that hasn't been said already, but I'm staying away from the Red Mile for the rest of this playoffs. That is because I am not 21 like I was in 2004 and am exhausted by the end of the game and just want to go to bed. I went down to Watchmen's for game 1 and had a few too many and my body hated me until the weekend.

[keratosis]

Originally Posted by polak

Protip: If you wanna see a girls boobs, don't chant aimlessly like a moron. Strike up a conversation and find a way to get her talking about them herself. From there on in, it's a layup and you're probably getting laid too.

Stop posting.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by polak

It's a very big deal but to label the entire Red Mile phenomenon a problem because of a few bad apples is not the solution.

Why are you so sensitive to "labels"? It's just a word -- "problem", not like b#### or wh###.