Redford: Buyers Remorse?

[Dion]

Here’s a breakdown of what Redford’s Olympic trip might look like in its current form:

Executive flights round trip: $36,000.00. Total based on average Air Canada costs of $6,000 per person provided on July 25 for six passengers roundtrip.

Accommodations: $18,540.00. A five-star hotel in central London right now is advertising at CDN $618.11 per night for a five-night stay between July 29 and Aug. 4. The cost is produced by calculating the cost of a room for each traveler over five nights.

Meals and Incidentals: $6,295.48. The Canadian Treasury Board allows public officials up to 110.68 pounds (CDN $174.87 based on current today’s exchange rate – July 25) for meals and incidentals. The cost estimates the daily expenses for six travelers over the six day time period.

On the ground travel: $24,031.80. The cost of renting three 2012 Rolls Royce Phantoms (one car for each minister and their staff) – based on each vehicle costing $1,335.10 per day.

Total: $84,867.28

Below are costs for flights, accommodations, meals and incidentals and on the ground travel for a taxpayer-friendly version of the same trip:

Economy flights round trip: $15,000.00. Total based on average Air Canada costs of $2,500.00 per person provided on July 25 for six passengers roundtrip.

Accommodations: $9,937.00. A four-star hotel in central London right now is advertising at CDN $331.24 per night for a five-night stay between July 29 and Aug. 4. The cost is produced by calculating the cost of a room for each traveler over five nights.

Meals and Incidentals: $6,295.48. Same as above.

On the ground travel: $540.00. David Cameron, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom – a G8 nation – will be using public transit with his protection team instead of using any VIP lanes, and is recommending that his ministers follow the same practice. There is no reason why Premier Redford and her team cannot follow Prime Minister Cameron’s lead. It would cost about CDN $15.00 a day to purchase a daily transit pass for each traveler over the six day period.

Total: $31,772.48

This leaves a monstrous gap of $52,027.52.

The Wildrose supports advocating on behalf of Alberta and standing up for Alberta’s interests both at home and abroad, but asking taxpayers to pick up the tab for extra perks on a six-day trip to the Olympics is the wrong way to do it.

http://www.wildrose.ca/feature/reali...-olympic-trip/

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Dion

http://www.wildrose.ca/feature/reali...-olympic-trip/

Yeah, and what does the security team cost?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yeah, and what does the security team cost?

There's lots of money left over to spend on security and renting Buckingham Palace to host receptions. Then again they might throw in those gaurds for free.

[Barnission]

Originally Posted by HOOT

People in BC didn't get rid of the tax because they thought it was the logical thing to do. Most voted against it because of the way it was brought in, dictator-ish, instead of having a vote which they ended up having. I honestly believe talking to people if the BC government would have put it up for vote at the begin with and/or offered some incentive to bring in HST besides make costs even higher out here (like the 10% HST they were promising if we kept it) people would have voted differently.

It seems for most I've spoken to, they voted to get rid of it because of the way it was brought in, not because it was a good or bad idea. I personally didn't vote at all because I don't care either way because I realized no matter the outcome it was going to cost me money.

Yeah, people did not like it because of how it was brought in, but in my opinion that does not warrant what happened; costing the province billions to repay the federal government back, and guaranteeing we'll never even discuss a a new tax for at minimum a decade.

That all said, I would have to argue that people here in BC that rejected the HST at first didn't like it because of how it was brought in. That was a legitimate complaint, and I was upset with it as well, however, over time it evolved in to a hate for the tax itself, which was spearheaded by, of all the people in the world, Bill Vander Zalm (fun fact: Vander Zalm's people suggested to not pay the federal government back... which is hilarious).

[Slava]

I love that the Wildrose has used advertised five night specials to figure this all out. Its a seven day trip, but lets not let counting get in the way of trying to score political points!

The wasted productivity from this discussion probably exceeds $84k by now. I seriously don't think that another party exists that is so penny wise and pound-foolish as the Wildrose.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Dion

http://www.wildrose.ca/feature/reali...-olympic-trip/

You have to love how the Wildrose, without actually demonstrating it to be true (and likely knowing it is 100% untrue), suggests the Premier is renting Rolls Royce's for herself and staffers.

What a load of crap.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You have to love how the Wildrose, without actually demonstrating it to be true (and likely knowing it is 100% untrue), suggests the Premier is renting Rolls Royce's for herself and staffers.

What a load of crap.

Seriously. Are there photos of these 3 rolls royces that the premier is rolling around in?

Not to mention just a quick check on air canada shows that there's cheaper first class seats (about $4000-$4500 per person rather than $6000).

$8000 for a five star hotel vs. a four star hotel is something I'm really not going to concern myself with.

I'd actually think that the incidentals would be a lot higher due to taking out business leaders and other ministers to events and meals.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You have to love how the Wildrose, without actually demonstrating it to be true (and likely knowing it is 100% untrue), suggests the Premier is renting Rolls Royce's for herself and staffers.

What a load of crap.

This is the sort of stuff that makes the Wildrose look like a petty opposition.

That entire post and criticism is based on pure speculation. They even say here's what the cost may look like and then go on to use quotes from Expedia. (And really who uses Expedia anymore anyways, everyone who's in the know uses Kayak)

I'm all for holding the government's feet to the coals if they are ACTUALLY miss using funds on the trip, but wait until the receipts are filled and there is actual hard evidence of wrong doing before going crazy on this. The Wildrose also fully know that the whole trip is purely business focused but have still spun it to look like it's just a fun trip of extravagance for the Premier and ministers.

[MarchHare]

On the ground travel: $24,031.80. The cost of renting three 2012 Rolls Royce Phantoms (one car for each minister and their staff) – based on each vehicle costing $1,335.10 per day.

Does the WRP have any evidence that the premier and her staff are renting Rolls Royce vehicles for ground transportation in London? If they are, I'll be right there with them complaining that this is a needless and wasteful expense (just like Bev Oda staying at the Savoy because another 5-star hotel wasn't good enough for her).

On the other hand, if Redford is not actually renting such extravagant vehicles, shame on the Wildrose Party for misleading Albertans with made-up fiction.

[crazy_eoj]

I find it hilarious some of you criticise the WRP for speculation when they have no choice because the Premier doesn't believe in accountability whatsoever so we have no clue how her budget is set up.

Too funny!!

[Senator Clay Davis]

Its obviously a no lose situation for the Wildrose. Make a baseless claim and be right? Get the voters angry at the PCs. Make a baseless claim and be wrong? Doesn't matter to their core supporters, they don't care. Might make them look even more delusional to the average voter, but the next election is years away and most voters will forget about their mistake by then.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Its obviously a no lose situation for the Wildrose. Make a baseless claim and be right? Get the voters angry at the PCs. Make a baseless claim and be wrong? Doesn't matter to their core supporters, they don't care. Might make them look even more delusional to the average voter, but the next election is years away and most voters will forget about their mistake by then.

So you are more concerned with a probable breakdown of a known cost, versus totally hiding where actual dollars are spent?

Makes sense to me!

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

So you are more concerned with a probable breakdown of a known cost, versus totally hiding where actual dollars are spent?

Makes sense to me!

"Probable breakdown"?

What's the probability that Redford and her staff are actually renting multiple Rolls Royces to get around London? It's misleading and intellectually dishonest, plain and simple.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I find it hilarious some of you criticise the WRP for speculation when they have no choice because the Premier doesn't believe in accountability whatsoever so we have no clue how her budget is set up.

Too funny!!

Lol at the poster trying to justify completely fabricated scenarios presented by the WRP.

This may be difficult for you to understand but I'll try to make it simple for you so you can follow along.

Accounting for business trips takes place AFTER the trip has been completed, not before or during. Or do you file expense reports before before entertaining clients or before your business trips?

[Tinordi]

This thread has really separated the wheat from the chaff.

[GP_Matt]

I am not taking sides, or maybe I am, but as far as I can tell the PC's announced a trip and said that the budget was $84000. I think it is safe to assume that that number came from somewhere. The flight and hotels would have been booked in advance and after that there is incidental activities, food and transportation. The events themselves are not part of this budget as far as I have heard.

Absolutely, the final accounting isn't done until after the trip, but the time to save money is before it is spent, not after. A lot of companies make people estimate their costs before they can get approval for a trip. I know that if I am going to go to a conference somewhere I am supposed to write up a quick account of how much it will cost and what I expect to get out of it. It doesn't have to be perfect but it does have to be approved before I leave, not after I get back.

I would hope that something like this is required within the provincial government and based on the fact that they have a ballpark cost already I think it is safe to assume that they did follow this process. So in the end, one party (the PC's) already has this information and have chosen not to release it until later, the other party (the Wildrose) is trying to determine how the number could possibly be so high. They aren't allowed access to the information so they have to try to guess. They put together the cost of fairly expensive flights and hotels, allowed the maximum for food and incidentals and then tried to fill the rest of the budget with transportation costs. The only way to get the transportation costs high enough to hit the $84000 mark was with the Rolls Royces. They aren't saying that they are using those cars, just that that is what a trip would look like in their mind if they were trying to spend the money that is being spent.

I think the bigger issue here is not that the numbers that the Wildrose made up aren't perfect but that the PC's have the real numbers and would prefer to release them later when the media attention has died down.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Umm, the time to release it would be now, when there is a massive distraction (the Olympics?) going on. In a few months when nothing is going on people will be even more outraged. The Wildrose is simply going for the holier-than-thou approach without actually having access to the information. Seems odd though, since I'd imagine a Bev Oda type would be welcomed in the Wildrose Party (since of course they are closer to the CPC than the PC's are).

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Its obviously a no lose situation for the Wildrose. Make a baseless claim and be right? Get the voters angry at the PCs. Make a baseless claim and be wrong? Doesn't matter to their core supporters, they don't care. Might make them look even more delusional to the average voter, but the next election is years away and most voters will forget about their mistake by then.

Not really a surprise, they have learned politics at the knee of the Federal Conservatives and the American Republicans as a general rule. This is common place in both of those political spheres.

[Dion]

Hangs head in shame

[Senator Clay Davis]

So July 29 to August 4th, which includes the 29,30,31,1,2,3,4, is by my count 7...