2011/12 Toronto Blue Jays Off-Season

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

former Toronto Star writer Geoff Baker, now of the Seattle Times, who tweets that the Jays are "making it known here in Dallas that they are NOT after Fielder."

Boooooooooo

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Boooooooooo

Good. They need pitching.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Good. They need pitching.

I'm completely OK with not going after Fielder, but we still need to add a big bat. I don't really want to see us pinning our hopes on Lind and Lawrie for next season, as Lind hasn't been great lately and Lawrie is still very young.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I'm completely OK with not going after Fielder, but we still need to add a big bat. I don't really want to see us pinning our hopes on Lind and Lawrie for next season, as Lind hasn't been great lately and Lawrie is still very young.

Oh for sure, they still need a big bat. But they need the pitching first now.

Be patient.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Oh for sure, they still need a big bat. But they need the pitching first now.

Be patient.

I don't think it really matters which comes first as long as they both arrive before the start of next season. Pitching is very difficult to get right now since the free agent market has practically nothing.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I don't think it really matters which comes first as long as they both arrive before the start of next season. Pitching is very difficult to get right now since the free agent market has practically nothing.

I don't think you'll get (all of) it before next season...

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I don't think it really matters which comes first as long as they both arrive before the start of next season. Pitching is very difficult to get right now since the free agent market has practically nothing.

what's the rush? Toronto isn't set to win right now. Throwing all their money at someone like Fielder for 8 years would erase most of the good work they have done to set themselves up for the next 5 years.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

what's the rush? Toronto isn't set to win right now. Throwing all their money at someone like Fielder for 8 years would erase most of the good work they have done to set themselves up for the next 5 years.

How so?

We have no 1B at all other than the replacement level Adam Lind.

Our best farm 1B are McDade, who can hit home runs, and that's about it, and Cooper who can get base hits and nothing much else.

We have Hechivarria, Thon, Dean and a couple other options for SS/2B/3B

We have D'Arnaud, Jiminez, and Perez behind the plate

We have Smith, Gose, Marisnick, Anderson, Thames, Snider in the outfield

And just a few pitchers. McGuire, Jenkins, Molina, Hutchison, Snydergaard, Nicolino, Norris, Stilson, Comer, Cardona, Alvarez, Carreno, and I'm probably missing 5 or 6 there.

Additionally, the key players on the team are going to be relatively cheap for a long time. Bautista, Escobar, JPA/D'Arnaud, Lawrie, Rasmus, Morrow, Alvarez, the entire pen as it stands now, are all going be cheap players for the next 3-5 years or more in the case of the young guys. Getting one 20 mil contract is not going to turn over the apple cart.

We have cheap replacements for every position that are on the way up through the system, and because of that we wouldn't need to spend a lot of money on any one guy except for one position.



Say you sign Fielder for 8/160, and don't add anything else to it, this is your 2012 team right here.

C - JPA - Mathis
1B - Fielder
2B - Valbuena/McCoy/Hechivarria/Lawrie
SS - Escobar
3B - Lawrie/Bautista
OF - Rasmus/Thames/Snider/Bautista/Davis
DH - Lind/Encarnacion
extra - Teahen

SP - Romero - Morrow - Alvarez - Drabek - Hutchison/McGowan/Litsch
BP - Carreno - Perez - Janssen - Molina - Litsch - Beck - Villaneuava

That team there probably gets close to 90 wins right there, without any additional adds. You could possibly deal Lind + a couple pitching prospects for a good cost controlled starter.

That team's payroll would only be in the 85-90 range. After this year, you'll likely see D'Arnaud, Hechivarria, and a whole slew of pitchers come up through the ranks just adding to the depth.

[dustyanddaflames]

Good post CG - and as time goes on, the more I think if Fielder is willing to come to Toronto, you should at least explore that option.

I am starting to think that our front-line starter will be addressed via trade regardless, so throwing the money at Fielder will not be as big of deal as I used to think it was. We do have pieces in our minor league system to acquire our No. 1 starter plus Lind, which would be expendable due to a potential Fielder signing.

The more I think about it, the more I am not opposed to it.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

what's the rush? Toronto isn't set to win right now. Throwing all their money at someone like Fielder for 8 years would erase most of the good work they have done to set themselves up for the next 5 years.

As I said before, I'm completely ok if Fielder isn't the guy we are targeting. A guy like Ortiz could likely be had for similar dollars per year but on a 2 or 3 year contract. That would not cripple us in any way but would give us that big bat for the 4 spot.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

I don't think you'll get (all of) it before next season...

Which is why I think it's best the Jays look at the best player available in either category, and clearly right now that's Fielder.

There are way more scenarios where AA could acquire an arm for the rotation via trade than there are to acquire a perennial 40 HR 1st baseman.

Maybe it isn't in the order AA would like under the ideal scenario, but rarely does it work out that way.

[dustyanddaflames]

One name I continue to keep hope that AA is targeting is Wandy Rodriguez out of Houston. Guy has incredible potential to be that "front line" starter that the Jays are targeting.

He isn't a big name starter, but his stats are pretty good - the only problem I see is he is a left-handed starter, and we already have Romero and Alvarez slated to be in the starting rotation from the left side. I am not keen on going Rodriguez/Romero as a 1/2 punch from the same side off the bump. But he would be a nice addition that wouldn't break the bank.

[dustyanddaflames]

The Cardinals have yet to modify their January proposal to Albert Pujols, writes Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. That was a nine-year offer worth about $22MM per year, so only eight years remain. Strauss believes the offer included significant deferred money, as does the Marlins' current nine-year proposal. The Cubs' interest in Pujols is viewed skeptically, while the Blue Jays are "believed a potential player."

I wonder how much of this is truth, or just due to the fact that the Jays' have been linked to Fielder and have money to spend.
EDIT - sorry, from MLBTraderumors.com

[howard_the_duck]

Not a huge fan of Wandy Rodriguez. Big pricetag next season and he'd be the senior on the Jays pitching staff, so he's not exactly young. Coming from Minute Maid park I'm not sure his effectiveness would translate as well in the Rogers Centre and the hard-hitting AL East.

If I'm going that route I'd take a look at Mark Buerhle, who IMO would come at a similar cost but is more battle-tested and wouldn't cost the Jays any prospects in a trade.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

One name I continue to keep hope that AA is targeting is Wandy Rodriguez out of Houston. Guy has incredible potential to be that "front line" starter that the Jays are targeting.

He isn't a big name starter, but his stats are pretty good - the only problem I see is he is a left-handed starter, and we already have Romero and Alvarez slated to be in the starting rotation from the left side. I am not keen on going Rodriguez/Romero as a 1/2 punch from the same side off the bump. But he would be a nice addition that wouldn't break the bank.

Alvarez is a righty, plus he is far from proven at the major league level.

[howard_the_duck]

Sounds like AA could be busier at the winter meetings than he led the media to believe.

“We’ve got some things that are at the five-yard line. There are some things that are available to us that are intriguing and interesting. I’m just struggling with them. There are things that we can do and I guess when you know they’re tough then you know they’re probably fair on both sides. I have a few that I could do right now. There’s frameworks of deals that can be made, both trades and free agency, that both sides would have to decide if they want to do it, but I think both sides are intrigued.”

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseba...wheel-and-deal

Interesting. I think supports a potential play for a big fish

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Sounds like AA could be busier at the winter meetings than he led the media to believe.



http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseba...wheel-and-deal

Interesting. I think supports a potential play for a big fish

Very interesting. I like how he uses a football reference instead of baseball.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Sounds like AA could be busier at the winter meetings than he led the media to believe.



http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseba...wheel-and-deal

Interesting. I think supports a potential play for a big fish

Very interesting comments - should make for an exciting next few weeks as rumors continue to populate!

Sorry about the Alvarez comment on him being a lefty, my mistake.

[dustyanddaflames]

The Royals are downplaying it, but they would trade closer Joakim Soria for a starting pitcher and would also discuss reliever Greg Holland, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. Soria, 27, is potentially under contract through 2014. Holland is drawing interest from the Blue Jays and others after a breakout season.

From MLBTraderumors.com

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

Sorry about the Alvarez comment on him being a lefty, my mistake.

pfft, idiot.