2011/12 Toronto Blue Jays Off-Season

[flambers]

Jays Priorities for the off season are as follows in my opinion

1) Add a #1 or #2 Starting Pitcher (done via trade imo)

2) Add Relief Pitchers and Closer (done via trade)

3) Find a quality 2nd Baseman

4) Backup catcher

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I suppose addressing the pitching needs is logical, but looking at the Red Sox and Yankee lineups of the last few years, they basically hit their way into the playoffs/wild card race. Fielder and Bautista would provide thump to the middle of the order that we haven't seen in 20 years for the Jays, not to mention the impact it would have on the young hitters around them.

Even if the Jays do pick up another middle of the rotation arm and decent closer, they still won't have an unbelievable pitching staff in 2012. If another starting pitcher and closer still won't make the Jays a playoff team next year, what's the harm in adding a massive bat that has a chance to pay huge dividends when the team will truly be competitive?

I'm aware of the risk that comes with those contracts, and given J.P Ricciardi's failure handing out those contracts, I can see why AA is reluctant to do the same. But anytime you have spending aspirations in the near future like the Jays, and a bat the significance of Prince Fielder on the market, I fail to see how it would be anything but positive.

Am just curious as to why you limited these options to average, when before you thought Fielder and the money that it would take to get him, would be a good idea?

For the money it would cost the team to get Fielder, you can land an ace plus a legitimate closer. Not nit picking, just curious as to why you did that.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

Am just curious as to why you limited these options to average, when before you thought Fielder and the money that it would take to get him, would be a good idea?

For the money it would cost the team to get Fielder, you can land an ace plus a front line starter. Not nit picking, just curious as to why you did that.

More based on the calibre of free agents. I'm not sold on Wilson as being ace material in the AL East, and Yu Darvish is promising but far from a sure thing.

Plus I think they have many more arms in their system than elite, game-changing bats. Not everyday you get a perennial all-star like Fielder hit the open market and not be bidding against the Yankees and/or Red Sox.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

More based on the calibre of free agents. I'm not sold on Wilson as being ace material in the AL East, and Yu Darvish is promising but far from a sure thing.

Plus I think they have many more arms in their system than elite, game-changing bats. Not everyday you get a perennial all-star like Fielder hit the open market and not be bidding against the Yankees and/or Red Sox.

Maybe but for the Jays to take the next step they need another Starter at the top of the rotation. Pitching has to the number 1 focus, Jays can bring up the young pitchers mid season etc...

Hitting and offense is a distant 2nd priority in my opinion

Not to mention, Fielder will reqire a crazy contract like Wells had to sign him.... doubt the Jays are interested.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by flambers

Maybe but for the Jays to take the next step they need another Starter at the top of the rotation. Pitching has to the number 1 focus, Jays can bring up the young pitchers mid season etc...

Hitting and offense is a distant 2nd priority in my opinion

Not to mention, Fielder will reqire a crazy contract like Wells had to sign him.... doubt the Jays are interested.

I think it's beyond unlikely it happens.

I agree a front of the rotation starter should be a priority - but I don't think it would have to be one or the other. AA has built up the Jays system to the point where they could obtain a top 2 starter without thinning the system drastically. Signing a big bat and getting a front end starter via trade would be doable given the Jays payroll.

Don't get me wrong though...this will not happen and I'm fully aware.

[Caged Great]

The Blue Jays have Acquired Jeff Mathis from the Angels for Brad Mills.

Basically we have a defensive catcher for the time being until D'Arnaud is ready. It's not like we actually gave anything up in value for him.

[Parallex]

Mathis kind of sucks, but really just about all back-up catchers suck in one way or another otherwise they wouldn't be backups.

[Caged Great]

Here's one for you. Prince Fielder has narrowed his choices for where he would like to play.

Toronto
Texas
Milwaukee

The report also says that the Jays are the front runner.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/1...SKnJfY.twitter

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

Ya I think Anthopolous will be looking at making a deal to bring in a second baseman, and if it can't be done, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kelly Johnson retained. While he isn't the glitz and glamour we are all hoping for, the guy does have some pop in his bat and is quite capable of producing out of the 7 or 8 spot in the lineup.

I don't know how I feel about targeting Fielder, even understanding it is a name that the club can sell to it's fanbase. He will command major dollars, has a questionable physique, and seems to have one good season followed by an off season. If Fielder could put together back-to-back seasons of 30/100 - I'd be much more intrigued, though it would probably price himself out of Toronto.

I think Anthopolous need's to get that premier ace of the rotation and build an all-world bullpen. While I like Romero and where his progression is taking him - I think Romero is that dominant 2 starter that championship teams have. Matt Cain from last year - the guy isn't flashy and doesn't draw the headlines of a Tim Lincecum, but he gets results. His post-season last year was something else. That is what I see Romero as being - that excellent support cast. We need an ace - a guy we can run out twice in a five series, and the possibility of a spot in game 7. I just don't know who that guy is - maybe a guy like Mat Latos out of SD, who isn't there yet, but projects to be a front-line starter.

As for the bullpen - to me, it is what is needing the most attention this off-season. You look at the clubs that are in the WS this year, and once they get the ball to their pen - the game is in lockdown. This is what championship teams are made of - six innings from their starter, and no questions for the remaining three. The Blue Jays are no where near that point right now.

I would be surprised. He brings 2 draft pics in an brand new era where draft picks just became much more valuable. It would make more sense to bring up a Las Vegas player that had little future, just to secure the pics.

And Fielder makes no sense. AA represents a changing of the removal of athletes and scouts and replacing them with academics, statisticians and otherwise bright people. Long term big money deals rarely work out. And AA points out that buying big names makes more sense as seasons develop, where you know your position in the standings, you know more about your injury situation and how your prospects are developing. Basically you are working with much more information.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Here's one for you. Prince Fielder has narrowed his choices for where he would like to play.

Toronto
Texas
Milwaukee

The report also says that the Jays are the front runner.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/1...SKnJfY.twitter

I'd love to have Prince on the Jays ... but a long term contract for him still scares me.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I would be surprised. He brings 2 draft pics in an brand new era where draft picks just became much more valuable. It would make more sense to bring up a Las Vegas player that had little future, just to secure the pics.

And Fielder makes no sense. AA represents a changing of the removal of athletes and scouts and replacing them with academics, statisticians and otherwise bright people. Long term big money deals rarely work out. And AA points out that buying big names makes more sense as seasons develop, where you know your position in the standings, you know more about your injury situation and how your prospects are developing. Basically you are working with much more information.

AA is also known for exploring every option available. Its possible that they like Fielder, and upon talking to him have found that it may be reasonable to sign him. Some of the major teams are not in the running for Fielder, and thus his price might not be as crazy as it could have been in another year. I still think its a slim chance though.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

AA is also known for exploring every option available. Its possible that they like Fielder, and upon talking to him have found that it may be reasonable to sign him. Some of the major teams are not in the running for Fielder, and thus his price might not be as crazy as it could have been in another year. I still think its a slim chance though.

ya i agree, he looks into everything. Therefore lots of blogs and rumor sites have Toronto in the top 3 on everything.

Your right, probably a soft year for Fielder, however, I can't think of one person I'd NOT want to give a long term big money deal to. He's going to age twice as fast as anyone else. That body is going to ravage his ability 5 years from now.

[Matty81]

Caught that this morning - I wish the article was coming from Rosenthal or Law or somebody national - I'd love to believe it but the cynic in me wonders how a local Cleveland affiliate guy scooped the national press and I suspect rumor mongering.

I really agree with the logic of signing him and swapping Lind and a prospect for a starter like Gio Gonzalez. I don't see a better fit in free agency coming up year for a power hitter and Votto would cost them the moon and stars. Even term might be OK for an AL team since he could DH in 4 or 5.

[Caged Great]

I would definitely be all for a 8/160-180 deal for Fielder.

If the Jays had a decent potential 1st baseman in the system then maybe it wouldn't be a good idea, but all the ones we have current are below average at best. So it's not like we have a replacement guy to possibly fight for the 1B position.

If Fielder's back starts acting up in a couple years, we can move him to DH and sign someone else for 1st.

Plus we can move Lind out for a pitcher, so it's all a win-win.

I don't really see a downside, other than in 4-5 years we'll have to move him to DH (big deal really)

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Plus we can move Lind out for a pitcher, so it's all a win-win.

If Lind can land you a pitcher of any type that deal should have been made yesterday.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I would definitely be all for a 8/160-180 deal for Fielder.

I wouldn't do more then 6 years for him. MAYBE 7 if he took a lower $/year and showed some willingness to play DH.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Caught that this morning - I wish the article was coming from Rosenthal or Law or somebody national - I'd love to believe it but the cynic in me wonders how a local Cleveland affiliate guy scooped the national press and I suspect rumor mongering.

If it makes you feel better Incarcerated Bob of Iggy to MTL fame was tweeting Toronto as the favorites for Fielder last night. Not sure if he got it from Cleveland or the Cleveland guy got it from him (or if they both made it up on their own.)

[flambers]

Originally Posted by moon

If it makes you feel better Incarcerated Bob of Iggy to MTL fame was tweeting Toronto as the favorites for Fielder last night. Not sure if he got it from Cleveland or the Cleveland guy got it from him (or if they both made it up on their own.)

TSN has the story up.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=381952

"It appears the Toronto Blue Jays are still in the running for free agent slugger Prince Fielder."

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

ya i agree, he looks into everything. Therefore lots of blogs and rumor sites have Toronto in the top 3 on everything.

Your right, probably a soft year for Fielder, however, I can't think of one person I'd NOT want to give a long term big money deal to. He's going to age twice as fast as anyone else. That body is going to ravage his ability 5 years from now.

How are we to know that? He's been about as durable to this point as any player in the league, playing in at least 157 games in every season he's been in the majors.

David Ortiz is also a big man and he's been successful into his mid 30's, which is where Fielder will be if he signs an 8 year deal.

I think the concerns about his body have been blown out of proportion.

[flames_1987]

former Toronto Star writer Geoff Baker, now of the Seattle Times, who tweets that the Jays are "making it known here in Dallas that they are NOT after Fielder."