[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Fact is, there are optimal times for teams to do scorched Earth rebuilds. For the Flames, it was in Summer of '22.

You can't have a blanket approach that dictates that all middling teams should rebuild because that is the shortest way to become a top team. That just isn't true in many situations such as the soft market conditions the league is currently experiencing. The Flames are much closer to being a good team now than if they traded several UFA's for underwhelming returns. So you recoup some draft capital and sign the guys you can and trust that you can still make good moves to improve your team.

Summer of 2019

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Summer of 2019

Speaking of which, was the Bryan Adams song the Summer of '69? Or the Summer of 69?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Fact is, there are optimal times for teams to do scorched Earth rebuilds. For the Flames, it was in Summer of '22.

You can't have a blanket approach that dictates that all middling teams should rebuild because that is the shortest way to become a top team. That just isn't true in many situations such as the soft market conditions the league is currently experiencing. The Flames are much closer to being a good team now than if they traded several UFA's for underwhelming returns. So you recoup some draft capital and sign the guys you can and trust that you can still make good moves to improve your team.

So yeah, voluntary mediocrity. It’s 100% the Calgary Flames way. The financials that they produce running things this way seem to be good enough, and they won’t risk taking alternative paths forward.

“much closer to being a good team”

This team needs to redefine “good”. Right now the organization defines it as “getting into the playoffs every second year, hopefully, and winning one playoff round every 5 years”. That’s what they define as being a good team, because that’s what their actions show. Their lack of desire to change directions this summer reiterates that.

Tried to keep Treliving, didn’t want to fire Sutter, and then ultimately replaced them both with their assistants. That’s how organizations act when they believe that what they’re doing is the right way to do things. The organization is content with the amount of success that they have had in the last decade - that’s the message to their fans.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The way I look at the lindholm situation is I look across the division at LA and what they've done there while keeping Kopitar in the fold well into his 30s.

The Kings have shown that you can build up your roster with young talent and still have that guy factor into the next core and be an effective 200 ft leader for the kids and get back to perennial playoff status.

I see the same potential with Lindholm.

You just want it to be at a reasonable cost that you can work with.

I don't see it as the same situation because the Flames are still trying to be competitive. The Kings had some high picks as well as a surplus of picks. The Flames also have way more money tied up long term in older players.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Fact is, there are optimal times for teams to do scorched Earth rebuilds. For the Flames, it was in Summer of '22.

You can't have a blanket approach that dictates that all middling teams should rebuild because that is the shortest way to become a top team. That just isn't true in many situations such as the soft market conditions the league is currently experiencing. The Flames are much closer to being a good team now than if they traded several UFA's for underwhelming returns. So you recoup some draft capital and sign the guys you can and trust that you can still make good moves to improve your team.

Was it really an optimal time? It was an extremely soft trade market, and nobody traded away 2023 1st rounders that summer (except Nils Lundkvist for a protected 1st in September).

Burns, Pacioretty, and McDonagh were essentially given away. A pretty good goal scorer in Bjorkstrand only fetched a 3rd+4th.

There were a few hockey trades, but Fiala and DeBrincat were there only real futures trades. Did those teams like any of our guys as much as them?

IMO a futures package for Tkachuk is about all you could really do. And I'm skeptical how good CAR's package actually was considering the guys they already got for free.

And we had a goalie with a NMC who just finished 2nd for the Vezina. Even if you could somehow scorch earth the rest of the team, there was no reason to believe he would be bad enough to get you anywhere near Bedard.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I think the truth should be the standard not positivity or negativity as a baseline. It should be a free market place of ideas and the ideas closest to truth should ideally win, regardless whether they are negative or positive. But you obviously have the arbitration rights here so you can draw the line anywhere, although once you gown down that path it's an endless swamp lol.

I've never blocked anyone, and won't.

And if I was truly "in charge" there would be less banning too (and the site would probably be worse off).

But truth is dangerous. If a poster believes they know the truth and everyone else is deluding themselves you get posts like our buddy above.

I think you can state facts as long as they are actually facts.

You can make predictions based on facts, and your projections as long as you keep it at that and don't then assume your projections are destiny or fact as well.

See a lot of that being skirted often.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've never blocked anyone, and won't.

And if I was truly "in charge" there would be less banning too (and the site would probably be worse off).

But truth is dangerous. If a poster believes they know the truth and everyone else is deluding themselves you get posts like our buddy above.

I think you can state facts as long as they are actually facts.

You can make predictions based on facts, and your projections as long as you keep it at that and don't then assume your projections are destiny or fact as well.

See a lot of that being skirted often.

This is interesting. I thought you “owned” the site (this has been mentioned by others multiple times in the past but have never been sure what it meant- like, just the domain name?)?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is interesting. I thought you “owned” the site (this has been mentioned by others multiple times in the past but have never been sure what it meant- like, just the domain name?)?

I do.

But I let moderators moderate.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I do.

But I let moderators moderate.

This has only been explained a thousand times before.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Was it really an optimal time? It was an extremely soft trade market, and nobody traded away 2023 1st rounders that summer (except Nils Lundkvist for a protected 1st in September).

Burns, Pacioretty, and McDonagh were essentially given away. A pretty good goal scorer in Bjorkstrand only fetched a 3rd+4th.

There were a few hockey trades, but Fiala and DeBrincat were there only real futures trades. Did those teams like any of our guys as much as them?

IMO a futures package for Tkachuk is about all you could really do. And I'm skeptical how good CAR's package actually was considering the guys they already got for free.

And we had a goalie with a NMC who just finished 2nd for the Vezina. Even if you could somehow scorch earth the rest of the team, there was no reason to believe he would be bad enough to get you anywhere near Bedard.

In terms of being forced into a massive organizational shift it likely would have been far better to rebuild after their 2 superstars decided to leave rather than replace them via the trade and free agency route. Obviously the ideal would have been 8 year deals for Johnny and Chucky and a reasonable window for contention would have existed with those 2 leading the way. Losing Gaudreau for nothing was a tough blow but Chucky deciding to move on was the death blow. He was our mid-20’s franchise player and future captain. Realistically with him, Dube, Mangiapane, Lindholm, Anderson, Hanifin, Kylington you have a pretty strong core of guys in the 25-28 age group to keep building.

The moves that capped off the summer of Brad sure seemed amazing at the time. Huberdeau, Weegar, prospect, 1st was more than most thought the team could get but the pending UFA status kicked the problem down the road that only massive 8 year extensions could solve. Giving up the 1st pick and going all in by paying Kadri a massive 7 year deal right before he turned 32 coming off a career year was also a massive risk and loss of a key asset.

Had the Flames come to the realistic conclusion they were not going to be able to win when their best 2 players left it would have been a great time to start the rebuild. Chucky moved for futures and then Lindholm/Hanifin/Toffoli, etc put on the market that summer and into the following season where their low cap hits and multiple years left would have enticed some teams to pay up.

I don’t think the Flames would have entered the Bedard sweeps but they would have had a great start on the rebuild. Let Treliving do the tear down and let Conroy start the build back up.

Obviously a really hard decision for a team to make after winning the division and losing to their arch rival in the playoffs. You lose your 2 pillars to build around though it makes the decision more realistic. Just not one the Flames felt they could make

[Camronius]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This has only been explained a thousand times before.

Who cares? It'll be explained 1000's of times more I'm sure. Is the expectation that every poster is aware of every thread and explanation...

Sorry, I'm sure you're a great guy, this post was just a bit ignorant and wasting my screen space - much like my post is now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Camronius

Who cares? It'll be explained 1000's of times more I'm sure. Is the expectation that every poster is aware of every thread and explanation...

Sorry, I'm sure you're a great guy, this post was just a bit ignorant and wasting my screen space - much like my post is now.

Anyone who thinks there is some conspiracy or cabal (as is evidence from some posters) - yes, they should be aware of how things are run here. Bingo has said "I'm not a mod" so many times, he really shouldn't have to any more.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wow ...

fake positivity
realities
false narratives
bogus situation
ignoring truth

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but do you see your bias? Your views are realities and truths. Other views are fake, false, and ignoring truth.

Bad way to come at a discussion in my mind.

Did you see the post I was responding to?

Yes it would be fake positive if people who didn’t agree with the direction of the team started saying so just to “be positive”, if you lie about things being good just to be positive that woukd be creating false narratives, saying things are good when you think they are bad would involve ignoring truths.

So no it isn’t a bad way to come into a conversation at all. Peopke should be free to have the opinions they want without having to pretend things are great just to “be positive.”

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Did you see the post I was responding to?

Yes it would be fake positive if people who didn’t agree with the direction of the team started saying so just to “be positive”, if you lie about things being good just to be positive that woukd be creating false narratives, saying things are good when you think they are bad would involve ignoring truths.

So no it isn’t a bad way to come into a conversation at all. Peopke should be free to have the opinions they want without having to pretend things are great just to “be positive.”

Yeah ... no.

Here is your offering ...

Originally Posted by Spurs

It changes the direction of the team just as much as the fake positivity does.

People aren't being negative for the sake of it they are just pointing out realities. Why should be create false narratives to pump up a bogus situation while ignoring the truth? That doesn't do any good at all.

You're clearly stating those that are negative (you defend this all the time so I'm guessing you) are stating realities, and truths.

You're just doubling down by saying people now "ignore truths" ... no they ignore your extrapolations and opinions. Huge difference.

And then you see the light and call it an opinion at the end! Good work!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Yes it would be fake positive if people who didn’t agree with the direction of the team started saying so just to “be positive”, if you lie about things being good just to be positive that woukd be creating false narratives, saying things are good when you think they are bad would involve ignoring truths.

Is this actually happening?


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[PepsiFree]

Yeah that seems completely made up. Who would lie about that? lol

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Anyone who thinks there is some conspiracy or cabal (as is evidence from some posters) - yes, they should be aware of how things are run here. Bingo has said "I'm not a mod" so many times, he really shouldn't have to any more.

Never saw that before, sorry.

[Bonded]

Spurs continued war on ‘toxic positivity’ continues to crack me up. Negative posters now posting positive things to stay safe. Lol

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah ... no.

Here is your offering ...



You're clearly stating those that are negative (you defend this all the time so I'm guessing you) are stating realities, and truths.

You're just doubling down by saying people now "ignore truths" ... no they ignore your extrapolations and opinions. Huge difference.

And then you see the light and call it an opinion at the end! Good work!

If you are just going to ignore what people write and make up your narrative what is the point?

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Is this actually happening?


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

When people say just be positive, that is what they are suggesting. Being blanket positive regardless of what happens requires ignoring reality. All I suggest is people should be free to judge each situation based on how they see it, being “positive” no matter what makes zero sense to me.