Israel declares war on Hamas

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by therapyforglencross

has a news agency confirmed what the blast was from? Was it from a misfired rocket or a blast from ammunition storage (via a misfired rocket)?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714641493338542155

[Fuzz]

A lot of hand wringing over this event, but the end result is probably a very good turnout for Israel. They can demonstrate they didn't do the bad thing, and generally people should now realize what they have been saying, don't trust anything Hamas tells you.

[blankall]

There's also audio of the militants talking about how they fired the missiles from a cemetery across the street from the hospital. The tone of their voice is chilling. No qualms about using the hospital as cover. No compassion or emotion after being informed they'd struck the hospital. They do not care at all about their own people.

[Regorium]

Lanny - any new thoughts on your ballistics, rocketry and physics expertise?

[starseed]

Israel has just achieved the diplomatic room they need to clear out the tunnels in the northern Gaza strip.

Hopefully Jordan resumes their engagement with Biden now.

Hopefully this will also deter Hamas from attacking the aid deliveries in the South. They lost a lot of face with this boneheaded play, but they will be desperate knowing Israel clearly stated they will intercept any aid reaching Hamas in the North.

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[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

A lot of hand wringing over this event, but the end result is probably a very good turnout for Israel. They can demonstrate they didn't do the bad thing, and generally people should now realize what they have been saying, don't trust anything Hamas tells you.

The press has already done their work. Even now most news sites are treating this like it's only Israel's opinion that it wasn't them. Everyone's seen the horrific initial headlines. No one will be around for the minor retractions.

Even the CBC's headline is just "Deadly Hospital Blast" and the subline reads "with Hamas blaming Israel and Israel blaming another militant group". No mention of any actual evidence.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2274459203524

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

Has a news agency confirmed what the blast was from? Was it from a misfired rocket or a blast from ammunition storage (via a misfired rocket)?

The BBC’s analysis suggests it was not from a dropped bomb, and there’s a good chance it was from a misfired rocket. But nothing verified.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

A lot of hand wringing over this event, but the end result is probably a very good turnout for Israel. They can demonstrate they didn't do the bad thing, and generally people should now realize what they have been saying, don't trust anything Hamas tells you.

Unfortunately, this isn't how things work in practice. There have been myriad studies done - to a point that it's a well accepted fact - that there is no "cure" for misinformation. The Continued Influence Effect causes even perfectly rational people who aren't pre-disposed to believe the misinformation to later still be persuaded by it even after being faced with a retraction. And that's saying nothing of the deliberately dishonest people who will continue to act like there was no retraction and that the original misinformation was never discredited, of which there are many.

https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?d...7393.20.6.1420

And then there are the people who simply won't retract because they don't want to admit they were wrong, but will instead try to just ignore the whole thing - will Tlaib, a sitting Congresswoman, post a mea culpa? It's possible, but more likely if she does anything she'll just delete the tweet - damage done.

Realistically this was always the inevitable result:

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

In the big picture, over time, nope. Not buying it. As I said above, wait for the millions of posts and the demonstrations and the rallies. Even if Hamas or Jihad was responsible there will be thousands of Hamas sympathizers waving signs "Israeli Monsters Bomb Hospitals".

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

The press has already done their work. Even now most news sites are treating this like it's only Israel's opinion that it wasn't them. Everyone's seen the horrific initial headlines. No one will be around for the minor retractions.

Even the CBC's headline is just "Deadly Hospital Blast" and the subline reads "with Hamas blaming Israel and Israel blaming another militant group". No mention of any actual evidence.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2274459203524

Sure, but that story was 13 hours ago. Watching to the story, it's very neutral with no conclusions. "The hospital attack, whoever was responsible..."

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The BBC’s analysis suggests it was not from a dropped bomb, and there’s a good chance it was from a misfired rocket. But nothing verified.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061

Good point by BBC. Any ideas on why we don't see the parts of the rocket, except that Gazans hide them because it is their rocket?

"
Another important part of missing evidence is missile fragments. Projectiles are often identifiable by the wreckage of their shell, and they can be used to determined the projectile's origin. But in this case, we have not seen that evidence
"

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Israeli Military releases apparent Islamic Jihad intercepted call discussing it's failed rocket launch that hit the hospital parking lot. Yes, there should be skepticism of Israel, but the same should be said of Hamas claims if not more so.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...f-53f7d6570000

I actually haven't weighed in because the whole situation is weird, but this strikes me as very odd (as someone that works with dialogue audio a lot)

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714619198264263041

In the rare occasion I've used an ambient mic that records in stereo, the L/R channels will have nearly identical patterns.

The best reasoning I can muster is that they had two separate wiretaps and combined them but that begs the questions a) why? a single wiretap already captures both sides of the conversation, and b) when combining them, why make them each separated into L/R channels? It's a really bizarre audio engineering choice

[CaptainCrunch]

Trudeau jumped the gun for sure on his condemnation, but that's the reality of social media and rabid press. In the old days a political leader would simply say "Hey we're looking into it, we'll come back to you when we have more information". Now because of the social media machine with the most horrific and graphic pictures and videos posted, while you as a leader watching social media see's the first wave of public opinion feel the need to ride that wave and make an immediate statement.


I don't blame Trudeau on this, its just the way politicians do business nowdays. But a stronger retraction from him is in order.


I watched the news this morning, and the press is still interviewing people that are blaming Israel for this, and still calling it an israeli airstrike. The softer tone ones are like, yeah it was a fallen rocket, but it wouldn't happen if Israel wasn't bombing innocent civillians. I find this is more then a bit dishonest. Hamas and other nutbar groups have a habit of launching missiles from or near mosques, and hospitals and civillian housing to shield themselves from retaliation, and there have been rockets that have fallen short and killed Palestinian civilians.


Looking at the damage area which is really small, I have to wonder about the size of the explosion versus the actual damage to the buildings which is minimal. Did the vehicles fuel cook off?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Good point by BBC. Any ideas on why we don't see the parts of the rocket, except that Gazans hide them because it is their rocket?

"
Another important part of missing evidence is missile fragments. Projectiles are often identifiable by the wreckage of their shell, and they can be used to determined the projectile's origin. But in this case, we have not seen that evidence
"

Either they've been carried off to cover this whole thing up. Or they're embedded in the car or the sides of the buildings.



There's never going to be a forensic investigation.

[starseed]

Why did he jump the gun? It is still reprehensible that people were likely burnt alive at a hospital parking lot hoping that it would be the safest possible place for them to seek shelter.

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[blankall]

Apparently as time goes on, more rockets are likely to fall short into Gaza. The militants are reaching into their less liable and older reserves and hastily putting together new rockets.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

No way hundreds of people could squeeze into that parking lot, particularly when we see that most lots were occupied by cars.

Absolutely no way people could camp out and sleep in their cars while waiting..

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Trudeau jumped the gun for sure on his condemnation, but that's the reality of social media and rabid press. In the old days a political leader would simply say "Hey we're looking into it, we'll come back to you when we have more information". Now because of the social media machine with the most horrific and graphic pictures and videos posted, while you as a leader watching social media see's the first wave of public opinion feel the need to ride that wave and make an immediate statement.

Yeah, this is a big problem. With the news cycle now happening in real-time, the terminally online expect an immediate response (‘this happened four hours ago - what are they waiting for!?”). The credibility of both news and official response to news suffers.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I actually haven't weighed in because the whole situation is weird, but this strikes me as very odd (as someone that works with dialogue audio a lot)

In the rare occasion I've used an ambient mic that records in stereo, the L/R channels will have nearly identical patterns.

Isn't it just one voice in each channel? I think that's generally preferred for phone recordings because it's easier to understand and transcribe them that way. So as long as they could wiretap in stereo (which doesn't seem like a big technological hurdle), it would make sense that it's presented that way.


What I don't get is, they're talking about rockets being launched from right next to the hospital causing it, but that doesn't match with any of the video evidence.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, this is a big problem. With the news cycle now happening in real-time, the terminally online expect an immediate response (‘this happened four hours ago - what are they waiting for!?”). The credibility of both news and official response to news suffers.

What did he say that was problematic? It still holds true right now.

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[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Isn't it just one voice in each channel? I think that's generally preferred for phone recordings because it's easier to understand and transcribe them that way. So as long as they could wiretap in stereo (which doesn't seem like a big technological hurdle), it would make sense that it's presented that way.


What I don't get is, they're talking about rockets being launched from right next to the hospital causing it, but that doesn't match with any of the video evidence.

It's not technologically unviable, it's just really strange and I've never seen a phone recording/wiretap presented this way.