Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not being able to charge at home isn't a non starter. I still don't have my level 2 installed at home and the level 1 trips my outlet that has a 10a surge protector. I've been charging at public chargers with zero issue. The grocery store here has both level 1 and 2 chargers as does Canadian Tire.

I think it is here, maybe?
Closest charger to me is 11 minute drive, 2nd closest is 18, then 25 minutes. None in my' local shopping area'.
This is anecdotal of course, but rented EV in Boston earlier this summer. On return, had to go 17 minutes out of way (one way) to charge before dropoff. Infrastructure so lacking

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Except it won’t stay cheap. Nothing stays cheap. Sure they can undercut Uber and put them in submission, then let cost rise and much as they like. I expect their model to be like Uber - individuals own the cars and carry the maintenance burden while Tesla takes a hefty cut.

It's all moot anyway, Tesla doesn't have a self driving vehicle, and won't any time soon. This announcement is just more grifting to prevent the stock price crashing. I kinda do hope they attempt to launch this though, the ensuing disaster will be hilarious.

[Sylvanfan]

In St Albert there are 26 public charging stations owned by the city. 20 of them are currently out of service due to vandals cutting the chords. There's maybe $5 of copper per chord....it's so dumb that this stuff happens. But if you are relying on public charging something like this is a pretty significant pain in the arse to navigate.

[Winsor_Pilates]

If I have a 240v receptacle do I still need one of those smart charging hubs?
What exactly do those offer?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

If I have a 240v receptacle do I still need one of those smart charging hubs?
What exactly do those offer?

You need to have a charging unit that plugs into that 240V receptacle, and then into your car. You can get these for a couple hundred bucks. At home, you don't need anything fancy, there's really no reason to.

[Faust]

Car Dealership Guy

[NEWS] Volkswagen is about to make history:

After almost 90 years, VW might shut down some of its German auto factories.

Why now?

VW is aiming to cut costs as China-made EVs devour market share in Europe.

And despite heavy investments, VW’s EV sales lag way behind leaders like BYD and Tesla.

Bottom line: China's EV boom is becoming a massive challenge for Europe’s auto giants. If VW follows through on its warning, the automaker will have a major uphill battle…

https://x.com/guydealership/status/1...977068809?s=61

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Brupal

Uber charges about $2 per mile, mostly because they have to pay the driver. If Tesla replaces the driver with an autonomous vehicle, and then builds a low cost Cyber Taxi or relies on existing owners to put their cars into the fleet, or turns around lease returns into robotaxis, they could easily undercut Uber by offering rides for $1.50 per mile and eventually $1 per mile or less. If a Tesla ride is meaningfully less expensive than an Uber, then instantly Uber’s market lead disappears. Uber has had 10 years to perfect their niche and have lost a cumulative $31 Billion doing so. They will have to partner with Tesla and pay them a licensing fee to enable autonomous driving to cut their costs enough to compete with Tesla or else it is game over. Meanwhile as the cost of rides falls, transit and even owning a personal car becomes expensive in comparison. I think autonomous ride sharing is going to be revolutionary, and it is going to roll out sooner than people think. I’d welcome any discussion on the topic.

There are already Robo taxis approved to operate. There cost structure is higher given they are using cameras but from a technology point of view Tesla is behind the other robo taxis. Uber isn’t the competition here. Autonomous ride sharing already exists.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by GGG

There are already Robo taxis approved to operate. There cost structure is higher given they are using cameras but from a technology point of view Tesla is behind the other robo taxis. Uber isn’t the competition here. Autonomous ride sharing already exists.

Pretty limited test areas though. The only ones I know of are the ones in Phoenix which covers a good portion and the ones in Vegas which are limited to going between select resorts on the strip.

[Fuzz]

Which is still far beyond what Tesla has.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Pretty limited test areas though. The only ones I know of are the ones in Phoenix which covers a good portion and the ones in Vegas which are limited to going between select resorts on the strip.

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/06/waymo...san-francisco/

Waymo is fully operational throughout San Franciso with no waiting list anymore. Over 2 million paid trips as of the above press release.

They are also in LA according to the website as well
https://waymo.com/blog/2024/08/expan...ngeles-riders/

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by GGG

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/06/waymo...san-francisco/

Waymo is fully operational throughout San Franciso with no waiting list anymore. Over 2 million paid trips as of the above press release.

They are also in LA according to the website as well
https://waymo.com/blog/2024/08/expan...ngeles-riders/

IIRC, there's also some quiet projects in China and Dubai that might be further ahead than Waymo. I've also always believed the application of this tech will start in industrial and businesses at scale before finalized consumer applications. Stuff like shuttles at an airport/business, luggage loading and unloading carts at airports, trams/trains etc.

[calgarygeologist]

Volvo is revamping their EV strategy and scrapping the plan to be an EV only manufacturer by 2030. They now say that hybrids will also stay in their lineup long term and will likely be about 20% of their sales in 2030 (both plug-in hybrids and mild hybrids.)

This comes on the heels of Ford making a statement that they are shifting focus towards hybrids as well which will provide lower price points, hopefully more consumer adoption and longer range. Ford has scrapped their plans for a 3 row EV and is replacing it with a hybrid powertrain.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Volvo is revamping their EV strategy and scrapping the plan to be an EV only manufacturer by 2030. They now say that hybrids will also stay in their lineup long term and will likely be about 20% of their sales in 2030 (both plug-in hybrids and mild hybrids.)

This comes on the heels of Ford making a statement that they are shifting focus towards hybrids as well which will provide lower price points, hopefully more consumer adoption and longer range. Ford has scrapped their plans for a 3 row EV and is replacing it with a hybrid powertrain.

Looks like Toyota was right all along not overreacting to the EV hype and focus more on hybrids.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Looks like Toyota was right all along not overreacting to the EV hype and focus more on hybrids.

I felt like from a cost analysis, the supply/demand on the batteries was the biggest reason for it. They could do several vehicles with the batteries intended for one thus reducing time and cost restraints from purely the battery standpoint.

[Shazam]

Funnily enough, getting a Toyota hybrid right now takes months, if not years.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Funnily enough, getting a Toyota hybrid right now takes months, if not years.

Apparently, not if you trade in another new Toyota. My cousin was able to get a Sienna Hybrid right away by trading in his new car that he'd been driving for less than half a year. He was told he'd have to wait like 14-16 months if he wanted to buy the Sienna hybrid without a trade in. I think the issue many Toyota dealers have is Toyotoa inventory in general.

It sounds kinda stupid, but it might be faster getting into a Toyota hybrid by buying the first brand new Toyota you can get your hands on, driving it for a few months then contacting dealers asking to get one and mentioning you have a several months old Toyota you'd trade in.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Apparently, not if you trade in another new Toyota. My cousin was able to get a Sienna Hybrid right away by trading in his new car that he'd been driving for less than half a year. He was told he'd have to wait like 14-16 months if he wanted to buy the Sienna hybrid without a trade in. I think the issue many Toyota dealers have is Toyotoa inventory in general.

Wait, why? It was that bad?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Wait, why? It was that bad?

No. It was fine, but it was a 5 seater vehicle. He had visitors this summer and needed a vehicle to seat 8. He decided to see if he could upgrade to a van before renting or borrowing my van for the summer.

Toyota demanded his Corolla to be traded in for the Sienna Hybrid or would refuse to sell it to him and put him on a 14-16 month waiting list instead.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I felt like from a cost analysis, the supply/demand on the batteries was the biggest reason for it. They could do several vehicles with the batteries intended for one thus reducing time and cost restraints from purely the battery standpoint.

Even from an environmental standpoint selling 8 PHEVs with 50k range whose 50-80% of the kms are battery driven and can be charged of 110V circuits is much better than 100% of 1 cars Kms.

Until we aren’t battery constrained the PHEV is the better product.

[Fuzz]

Prince Edward Island faced that dilemma this summer. That small provincial government administers its own student busing and was an early adopter of e-buses. There were growing pains. But P.E.I. applied for federal funding to buy 207 more e-buses to keep scaling up.

That approval hasn't come. In the meantime, older diesel buses break down. Faced with not having enough vehicles, the province reversed gears and bought 30 diesel replacements while awaiting word on federal assistance.

"I think if you look across Canada, you'll see all kinds of jurisdictions that are planning to switch to electric buses that are kind of in limbo while they wait for this funding," said Steven Myers, P.E.I.'s minister of environment, energy and climate action.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gre...lays-1.7314006

When I read stuff like this, it really confirms my position that handouts for EV's to wealthy people that can afford them has been the wrong tactic. Electrifying buses and things like delivery vehicles will have far more impact on CO2 emissions and air quality than passenger cars. That this bus funding challenge exists and is limiting their adoption is silly, while people making 200k a year get their hand outs to buy fancy cars. And ultimately school buses are bought with taxpayer dollars, so it's also far better value for taxpayers. I'll remember this every time a stinky diesel school bus dusts me on my bike. Dumb.