Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattanboy
Oh man there is more spin here than a 78 RPM record.
|
I take it that this reference is to everything you wrote after it because there is nothing but spin in this. Pepsi made a valid and fairly level-headed statement about the response. No finger pointing, no labeling people antisemitic or Jew hater or Hamas supporter or any other such nonsense. Just a direct comment that was on the money.
Quote:
|
On the contrary the pro-Israel posters in this thread in the face of unspeakable and unimaginable war crimes committed against innocent Jews have gone out of their way to separate Hamas from Palestinians generally and when in the heat of the moment something inappropriate has been said have quickly owned and corrected the statement.
|
Well, this is inaccurate. We have one poster that is continually calling anyone who questions what Israel is doing as an antisemite. We have another calling Palestinians monsters and animals. We have yourself calling them Hamas supporters. An no quick retractions from any of you like you claim. I've been called a lot of things in my day but antisemite and terrorist supporter is new territory, and it's completely unwarranted.
Quote:
|
The hate and vitriol spewed at demonstrations around the world and on-line, including chants of "gas the Jews" in Sydney following the October 7 attacks, even before any material response from Israel, is disgusting and now things are only going to get much much worse. There are frenzied demonstrations going on right now in Tehran, Baghdad, Beirut and Cairo.
|
Have you ever considered what generates that reaction around the globe? Why do you think people would have a visceral reaction toward Israel and Jews like that? It's more than just religion. It's more than just customs. What is it?
Here's my theory. The world wants to see peace. The world wants to see equity and fair treatment. The existence of the Israel state and how it was created screams inequity and unfair treatment. Just the state of Israel existing - a homeland for Jews - is something so many other cultures/ethnocultures don't have and will never have. A homeland was carved out from lands of an existential people and those people have seen their lands decrease. This homeland was to the benefit of a very small number of people. That is something that makes people believe Israel receives different and unfair treatment over others (and the two US carrier groups off the coast seem to support that as well). If this was a fair practice the Tamils (70M), Pashtuns (45M), Kurds (40M), Oromo (42M), Yoruba (35M), Igbo (30M), and Occitan (16M) peoples would all have lands carved out for them. They have just as much history and connection to their homelands, so you can see a great inequity here.
Next I think people are tired of this Middle East nonsense and the tit-for-tat nature of things. Maybe it's time for Israel to recognize their own bad behaviors here and extend the olive branch for a long-lasting peace? Israel is the actual country while the other is a terror organization. The country should be the adult in the room, no? This could have been that moment where the Israeli government made the conscious decision to try and right wrongs AND get Hamas. They could have communicated to the Palestinian people and said we feel your pain and we are going to work with you to right the wrongs of the past and provide you the homeland you too deserve (rolling back borders to a specific time) under the condition that you turn over the terrorists responsible for the attacks and no longer support such groups. Work with the UN to establish this homeland and get it the same recognition Israel receives. Solve the problem of the Middle East!
Another issue that rubs people the wrong way is this persecution complex that comes up in every conversation. "We've been persecuted for 3,000 years!" Yeah, so have other cultures and minorities around the world. They don't open conversations with that! Complete ethnicities have been wiped away through ethnic cleansing. It's horrible and it is tragic. The Jewish religion and culture is still strong and represented around the globe. If this is such a massive issue shouldn't Israel and Jews everywhere be on the front lines helping the Armenians, the Kurds, the Uyghurs, or the Rohingyans?
There are more but this is just an easy start. I think the point is a little introspection and self-examination may go along way to answering the question "why do they hate us so much?" You don't just develop these feelings without cause.
Now before I get called an antisemite again (you know who you are and go #### yourself) these are the obvious reasons that jump out at me for why people would automatically have a negative reaction to Israel or Jews. This is not my personal position, but I can see these things coming into play. My personal position is that Israel should make accommodations for the Palestinians and work WITH them to root out Hamas and eliminate them. Peace can only be achieved through compromise and working from what makes us the same rather than focusing on what makes us different.
Quote:
|
Consider this tweet from Rashida Tlaib
|
Don't really care what another twit from Twitter/X has to say. Stop giving a #### about what comes off of a cesspool like Twitter. Anti-social media is going to be the end of our civilization, I swear.
Quote:
|
Now consider how things are being whipped up in the Arab Street by the Arab media, propaganda machines and politicians. If Israel wasn't the embodiment of all evil in the world before, it is now.
|
And Israel is not doing the same? Come on, propaganda is part of every war/battle. Israel does fine getting their message out and spreading their propaganda/lies. Watched some CNN yesterday on the events and it was all Israel all the time. When it comes to Israel and the media the media is pretty open to giving airtime to the Israelis or their supporters.
Quote:
|
Meanwhile Hamas leaders are on the floor of their underground bunkers laughing uncontrollably while they count their lottery winnings that just keep coming.
|
Yup, just like the Israeli military leaders and politicians are high-fiving with every bomb dropped, every Palestinian shot or killed, and every piece of infrastructure destroyed or #### down. Dumb statement is dumb. It's easy to vilify and make the enemy an inhuman monster but they understand the things they are doing and the cost they are extracting. Both sides do. Both are right and both are very wrong. There is no moral high ground on this one, for anyone. The closest would be the people caught in the middle, the civilians on both sides who are just trying to live their lives in peace. These are the people I feel for and support, Arab and Jew.
