[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by zamler

If this deal falls through Flames are a good as gone. Reality. I'm with you don't think tax payers should be on the hook for so much but it's the best deal we're going to get.

Long term it's still money well spent.

Why do you think the current deal is the best deal we could have gotten? Personally I really don’t like the odds on Gondek and Smith getting the best of Murray Edwards in a negotiation, especially when one has an election looming and is the leader of a party with a track record of implementing corporate welfare policies.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Why do you think the current deal is the best deal we could have gotten?

Because there is not going to be any more negotiating.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by zamler

Because there is not going to be any more negotiating.

No offence but I think that’s a pretty low bar to set for a successful negotiation

[zamler]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

No offence but I think that’s a pretty low bar to set for a successful negotiation

I agree, reality is a bitch.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by zamler

If this deal falls through Flames are a good as gone. Reality. I'm with you don't think tax payers should be on the hook for so much but it's the best deal we're going to get.

Long term it's still money well spent.

But it’s not money well spent that’s the issue. No economist that isn’t paid directly or indirectly by the team believes that Arena spending works as an economic benefit.

Now if one argues that the community intangibles are worth spending the money to have the flames here and the concerts then sure you could argue it’s money well spent.

It however in no reasonable analysis is money well spent from a fiscal point of view.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

And it should be clear that "community intangibles" does not include some vaguely defined economic benefit to the surrounding area or tourism or... anything, really. The only reason the deal "makes sense" is that you're willing to say damn the torpedoes, I like like having a hockey team.

I also don't buy the argument that it's the best deal we're going to get. Even if the flames moved, there would be a new team here by expansion or otherwise in a few years at most and as part of that deal there'd be a new building. It's too good an NHL market not to have a team here.

So really it's just that you're willing to say "damn the torpedoes, I want Murray Edwards' hockey team".

[Ozy_Flame]

It was an election plank to buy votes, and hockey was the trojan horse to get them.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1663601512214405120

I think the bots algorithm broke, this one is from the other side.

[Monahammer]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...erta-election/


Yeah but who cares what the rest of Canada thinks, i guess would be the answer from some of you.

I do care. I think it's horrifying.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1663601512214405120

...

are you proud of this??

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by zamler

I agree, reality is a bitch.

But in "reality" the Sens are being sold for a billion dollars to an owner keeping the team there. Why does your "reality" not include things that are easily found in the news... Or in other words, you know, real reality

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I also don't buy the argument that it's the best deal we're going to get. Even if the flames moved, there would be a new team here by expansion or otherwise in a few years at most and as part of that deal there'd be a new building. It's too good an NHL market not to have a team here.

But the costs of these projects are rising even faster than overall inflation. So even if the City walks away from the deal and negotiates a new one in five years with the costs shifted a few percentage points in their favour, it will still probably cost the City more than this latest deal.

This is what I find frustrating about the whole debacle. CSEC and the City are both going to wind up paying much more for this thing than they would have if they’d reached a deal 7 or 8 years ago.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Lowest in Canada doesn’t help globally.

Yes, because Suncor is going to move the the Cayman's

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

And it should be clear that "community intangibles" does not include some vaguely defined economic benefit to the surrounding area or tourism or... anything, really. The only reason the deal "makes sense" is that you're willing to say damn the torpedoes, I like like having a hockey team.

I also don't buy the argument that it's the best deal we're going to get. Even if the flames moved, there would be a new team here by expansion or otherwise in a few years at most and as part of that deal there'd be a new building. It's too good an NHL market not to have a team here.

So really it's just that you're willing to say "damn the torpedoes, I want Murray Edwards' hockey team".

To be fair, we would probably be closer to winning a cup if the Flames relocated tomorrow and some new owner pushed for an expansion team...

It's almost worth it to get rid of our albatross contracts and get that sweet, sweet expansion team depth

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Yes, because Suncor is going to move the the Cayman's

Yes, but TC Energy, Enbridge, CPKC (Formally CP Rail) and many others might.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Yes, but TC Energy, Enbridge, CPKC (Formally CP Rail) and many others might.

#### it then, drop it to zero; why #####-foot around it?

Let's just take this race to the bottom to its inevitable conclusion. Or we can stop the lying to ourselves that the original cuts in 2019 lead to any substantial reinvestment into Alberta or employees.

moving the rate down didn't keep Encana in Alberta; nor was a higher tax environment provided as a reason for doing so.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Cappy

#### it then, drop it to zero; why #####-foot around it?

Let's just take this race to the bottom to its inevitable conclusion. Or we can stop the lying to ourselves that the original cuts in 2019 lead to any substantial reinvestment into Alberta or employees.

moving the rate down didn't keep Encana in Alberta; nor was a higher tax environment provided as a reason for doing so.

Lowering the corporate rate to zero or say 2% would be a great way to instantly diversify our economy. You'd get more companies from all over the globe coming to Calgary and not just oil companies. Companies chase the lowest cost of capital. NDP corporate tax increase chases them away.

[Monahammer]

Yes, California is well known for having no foreign investment. You're absolutely right.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Cappy

#### it then, drop it to zero; why #####-foot around it?

Let's just take this race to the bottom to its inevitable conclusion. Or we can stop the lying to ourselves that the original cuts in 2019 lead to any substantial reinvestment into Alberta or employees.

moving the rate down didn't keep Encana in Alberta; nor was a higher tax environment provided as a reason for doing so.

It's not an inevitable conclusion. I would point out that still being the 'lowest in Canada' shouldn't be the goal to manage to, especially when Canada's not very competitive in a business sense to begin with. Being competitive in a North American / global perspective should be the goal. Funny thing at 8% Alberta's bringing in the most corporate tax receipts in it's history this year including when it was at 12% under the NDP and 10% prior. Did the NDP even go through the process of thinking out if they would even bring in much more revenue taking in the net puts and takes knowing full well that on the margin there would be companies making different decisions at a higher tax rate? Their platform says no, because they just linearly increased the corporate tax receipts by 3 points in their mock budget.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Lowering the corporate rate to zero or say 2% would be a great way to instantly diversify our economy. You'd get more companies from all over the globe coming to Calgary and not just oil companies. Companies chase the lowest cost of capital. NDP corporate tax increase chases them away.

So what you are saying is that the Smith/Trudeau/Singh UCP is driving out corporate investment by their refusal to lower corporate taxes. Bunch of socialists.

Perhaps you should look into Kansas and report back.