[GT] US election - It's 2020, what could possibly go wrong?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You can't gerrymander an individual state-wide senate race, but the senate as a whole is inherently gerrymandered in a way that strongly favours the Republicans. The predominantly rural states with small populations have non-proportionate senate representation equal to the predominantly urban states with large populations. It's ridiculously anti-democratic that Wyoming (population 579k) has an equivalent number of senators as California (population 39.5M).

I mean, if they didn't they wouldn't still be a country, so there is that.

[Manhattanboy]

A friend suggested the US needs a candidate like Mark Cuban.

A guy like that could run for either party- social democrat, friend of Wall Street, would appeal to moderates on both sides.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

A 17-year-old can't vote...

Come on.

Do you believe children should vote? If not, there has to be an entry point. 18 works, if the voting public wants to move that line to 21, or 16, or 12, or whatever, that changes nothing. Children aren't given the right to vote until they achieve a certain age. Then they have it for life.

Trying to equate that to removing the right to vote, is a brutally false equivalency.

Should we remove the right to vote for people with mental health issues?

Please tell me where we should draw the lines on restricting freedoms.

[GirlySports]

The crazy thing is that if Trump loses, he lost because of white men, everything else was up.

White men down
White women up
Blacks up
Latinos up
Asians up

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There will come a day when you are really embarrassed by the foolishness of this.

Fighting to remove the vote from a group because you believe they vote differently than you do, is the definition of undemocratic. All voters are equal, or you do not have a democracy.

Should we have education restrictions? income level restrictions? Sexual orientation restrictions? Ethnicity? Only the employed?

Might not have been clear, I meant for the candidate. Biden looks like he might slip into dementia and I am scared if Trump will start losing it more as he gets older.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The crazy thing is that if Trump loses, he lost because of white men, everything else was up.

White men down
White women up
Blacks up
Latinos up
Asians up

Well, seeing as white men are the source of all evil - this must mean Trump is a good thing.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

A friend suggested the US needs a candidate like Mark Cuban.

A guy like that could run for either party- social democrat, friend of Wall Street, would appeal to moderates on both sides.

Cuban has openly advocated for a system where candidates can run as independents that are not beholden to the DNC or GOP, so there is that.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

PA just jumped from 64% in to 84% in and Trump's lead has shrunk by about 100,000 votes. However, the lead is still 393,000 votes. So Biden needs to narrow the gap more quickly if he's going to make that one the type of nail biter we see in MI, NC, GA and WI.

I also think Michigan is pretty close to being called for Biden.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Just to play devils advocate here - what about under 18 voting?

I think its a similar thought process that someone 90+ has a high chance of having some form of cognitive impediment that likely wouldn't put them in the right mind to make decisions for the greater good. Similar to a child.

There is also the argument of how someone voting in the last years of their lives are similar to being at a restaurant, ordering for the whole table, leaving before the appetizers arrive and then footing them with the bill.

Again, I agree with you but some of these arguments are atleast reasonable.

Elderly people are stripped of driving rights, etc. as they age because they aren't able to make these decisions for themselves and can be a potential danger to society.

The driving argument is also a false equivalency - it is a matter of being physically unfit to drive, primarily due to failing eyesight and reduced reflexes.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think the Dems just need to get better at lying.

Trump and the republicans have made it their MO to lie about the positive effect they'll have on the middle class, tax cuts, job creation etc. Not to mention their moral and religious values that we all know are BS.

The Dems don't lie as good. They extoll all these virtues of freedom and equality when nobody wants that. They want good old fashioned fear mongering. It has always worked better. That's a fact (as proven by political ads).

Then when you get in power, you do the exact opposite of what you campaigned on. That is, campaign against socialized medicine, against cutting police and military spending, campaign against asylum for immigrants, against separation of church and state etc.

Then when you win, just do whatever the #### you want because who gives a ####. Medicare for all, asylum for illegals, massive increases to the social safety net etc.

The trick to getting ahead in life is to be a two face backstabber. When will these do gooder Dems learn? It's been this way for thousands of years and has been mastered time and time again by the greatest religious and government officials who have ever lived. Entire empires have been built on it.

Of all the reasons we’ve heard for the Democrats whiffing on a softball lob election this has to be the most pathetic.

People equally saw thru the back tracking and double talk of Sleepy Joe.

A massive portion of the population bought what Trump sold,Biden should be embarrassed this was so close but the quote I love was “he might be the pilot but he doesn’t own the plane moving forward.”

[81MC]

Honestly suggesting the elderly have less of a right to vote than anyone else, including 17 year olds, would be beyond ludicrous.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Might not have been clear, I meant for the candidate. Biden looks like he might slip into dementia and I am scared if Trump will start losing it more as he gets older.

Ah. Apologies then.

I still disagree though. First their own parties, then voters in general, choose the candidates. If voters feel they are the best candidate, then so be it. Presumably, if the candidate's age is a deterrent, that would make them a less desirable candidate, and the system would deal with it as desired.

(but that is a very different issue, and not 'undemocratic')

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Georgia provided a small update; Trump's lead has shrunk from 118,000 to about 78,000 there.

EDIT: This according to the AP.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ah. Apologies then.

I still disagree though. First their own parties, then voters in general, choose the candidates. If voters feel they are the best candidate, then so be it. Presumably, if the candidate's age is a deterrent, that would make them a less desirable candidate, and the system would deal with it as desired.

(but that is a very different issue, and not 'undemocratic')

Yeah, I am also all for term limits for politicians as well. I just think an establishment politician can lose touch with the every day voter. Totally different discussion.

Definitely not advocating taking away voting rights from elderly people haha

[Patek23]

The same people who suggest seniors not be able to vote are the same people up in arms for Republicans blocking felons from voting. Both are blatant attempts to skew results in YOUR personal favour. And both are wrong. Every adult should be granted the right to vote. In Canada even if your in the penitentiary you can vote. IMO that’s one thing we do right, everyone can cast a vote.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

You can't gerrymander an individual state-wide senate race, but the senate as a whole is inherently gerrymandered in a way that strongly favours the Republicans. The predominantly rural states with small populations have non-proportionate senate representation equal to the predominantly urban states with large populations. It's ridiculously anti-democratic that Wyoming (population 579k) has an equivalent number of senators as California (population 39.5M).

The Senate was never meant to be proportional. That would just duplicate the House.

The Senate recognizes the equality of states and addresses regional differences and disparities.

[Azure]

Sheesh, now we have 2 pages of discussion over whether or not we should allow old people to vote because the original poster didn't properly clarify what he meant.

Words are important.

[MarchHare]

Update from 538 on what votes are currently outstanding:

Arizona: Biden currently leads here by 93,518 votes, but there are around 600,000 left to count, according to the Arizona Republic. About 450,000 of those are in Maricopa County, which says it will release two batches of results tonight: one at 9 p.m. Eastern and one sometime after 12:30 a.m. Eastern. Some outlets, such as Fox News, have already projected Arizona for Biden, but our colleagues at ABC News have not yet done so.

Nevada: Biden leads here by only 7,647 votes, and an estimated 14 percent of the vote is still uncounted. However, those votes will all be either late-arriving mail ballots or provisional ballots, which should lean Democratic. We won’t be getting another update here until noon Eastern on Thursday.

Wisconsin: The Wisconsin Elections Commission has announced that all votes in the state are counted, and Biden has a 20,510-vote lead in the state. The Trump campaign has requested a recount, but that has not stopped some media outlets like the AP to project Wisconsin for Biden. ABC News has not issued a projection here, as the decision desk won’t project races that are within 1 percentage point.

Georgia: Trump currently leads here by 79,509 votes, and the secretary of state said during an 11:30 a.m. press conference that there were still 200,000 mail-in votes and 50,000 early votes to count, mostly in Democratic-leaning counties like Fulton and DeKalb. Fulton is hoping to finish all its counting by 9 p.m. tonight.

Michigan: Biden currently leads here by just 37,350 votes, but it will be difficult for Trump to close that gap because most of the uncounted ballots are in very blue Wayne County (Detroit). At 2 p.m. Eastern, Wayne said it had only 16,000 ballots left to count, which it plans to complete by 6 p.m.

Pennsylvania: Trump currently leads Biden 53 percent to 45 percent in Pennsylvania, but this one is a long way from over — 19 percent of expected votes are still uncounted, most of them Democratic-leaning mail ballots. Counties are working around the clock to finish counting, but we’re looking at Thursday or Friday before results are semi-final.

North Carolina: North Carolina has counted every ballot it had in its possession as of yesterday, and Trump leads by 76,737 votes among them. However, the state has announced that about 117,000 mail-in ballots are potentially outstanding, plus an unknown number of provisional ballots. Mail-in ballots have until Nov. 12 to arrive, and only at that point will more results be released.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sheesh, now we have 2 pages of discussion over whether or not we should allow old people to vote because the original poster didn't properly clarify what he meant.

Words are important.

I saw that he clarified. But the suggestion that you not be able to vote past a certain age has been brought up several times in the past on this board.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

I saw that he clarified. But the suggestion that you not be able to vote past a certain age has been brought up several times in the past on this board.

I find it reprehensible that we would even think about restricting voting rights based on age.