Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by getbak

The only no votes for the deal were Chahal, Farrell, Farkas, and Woolley.

Chahal didn't like the real estate portion
Woolley didn't like the rushed timing
Farrell didn't like the optics of big operational cuts at the city and the deal
Farkas didn't like spending money

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Mull

How often do we say that and the flames prove us otherwise in the arena debacle?

Using their key charity event (the golf event) to make threats about the arena

Their top media guy going publicly on twitter when Nenshi gets reelected typing something like "the City is Screwed now". Again, not some low level employee, I think he was the director of media or something.

Creating a hastily made infographic full of falsehoods just to give the City more time to create a counter version

The list goes on....

They still got a deal where the city is paying for half of it despite all of that. The negotiation tactics were prickly, but at the end of the day they got what they wanted moreso than the arena itself, surrounding developmental land they own/rights over.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Joborule

They still got a deal where the city is paying for half of it despite all of that. The negotiation tactics were prickly, but at the end of the day they got what they wanted moreso than the arena itself, surrounding developmental land they own/rights over.

That is a fair point, the outcome is what matters. I would hedge it that the City doesn't look at them rationally and they were always going to get something.

So the measure of success is to know what they wanted, was it the outcome (or willing to accept even a worse one), or did they truly want CalgaryNEXT and/or the Edmonton deal as they claimed.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jayswin

We were generally a bit better in Canada, but Darryl Katz bent Edmonton over in embarrassing fashion and has now set a new precedent. Thankfully Calgary didn't bend over quite as badly, but I still don't like it.

Are there many stadiums/arenas in Canada built with private money? I agree with your general thought about protecting taxpayers money but there are some US stadiums built 100% with private money.

I'd be curious if the data supports the idea that Canadian arenas and stadiums use less public money than in the US. It seems counterintuitive.

[united]

Originally Posted by Mull

Their top media guy going publicly on twitter when Nenshi gets reelected typing something like "the City is Screwed now". Again, not some low level employee, I think he was the director of media or something.

[Torture]

Gondek voted for it

Against were:
Farrell (stepping down)
Wooley (stepping down)
Chahal (probably running again in is ward?)
Farkas (gunna ####us)

(Woops, guess I'm stuck on the last page's convo)

[Torture]

Originally Posted by kermitology

This isn’t the city backing out, it’s the Flames demanding ludicrous things and trying to change the deal. And #### that noise.

You give on this and they’ll just keep taking. I’m looking forward to selling my house so I no longer have a vested interest in municipal affairs in Calgary.

This season’s performance is making this fall on some pretty deaf ears.

Yup. CSEC already got a deal both sides thought was fair. Now they're bargaining in bad faith and trying to change the terms. #### that.

[Bourque's Twin]

Say what you want about Farkas, but this vote is in the best interest of taxpayers and not aligning with billionaires.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Say what you want about Farkas, but this vote is in the best interest of taxpayers and not aligning with billionaires.

I align with him on this very issue. The hole he dug himself is, I don't belive him.

At all

I don't think he is genuine (relatively given we are on a politician scale after all) and if the popular vote was on the other side, he would of flipped.

The arena deal was an "Nenshi Success" (even if in the end it really wasn't his), Farkas needed to be on the other side of that come hell or high water.

Now, could he be 100% straight on this particular issue? Sure, but its own past actions that have made me, and other voters, feel that he is lying out his butt.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Mull

I align with him on this very issue. The hole he dug himself is, I don't belive him.

At all

I don't think he is genuine (relatively given we are on a politician scale after all) and if the popular vote was on the other side, he would of flipped.

I agree he isn't genuine in general (I frequently wonder if anyone's checked to see if he has a bellybutton to make sure he wasn't grown in a petri dish in an underground lair of the Manning Centre) but I don't think he's doing it just to be contrarian. I think he'll do whatever is the most virtue signaling thing he can to show he's the most conservative conservative that ever conserved regardless of whether he actually believes in it. Comes off as fake.

God our options for Mayor stink right now. Need another reasonable candidate... I mean, Larry Heather isn't even the worst candidate this time around and he's always the worst candidate.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

If true, those are ludicrous demands and the Flames can shove it. They are completely out of touch with the public’s appetite for this kind of BS right now.

This seems like Murray Edwards hardball. Every year the Hockey News lists the 100 most influential people in the NHL, and every year Edwards is on the list and cited as a close ally of Bettman and one of hardliners in the board of governors. If he takes a notably antagonistic, hardline stance in negotiations with players, it’s unsurprising he’s using the same tactics with the City. And he lives in England so yeah, probably pretty out of touch with public sentiment in Calgary.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mull

I align with him on this very issue. The hole he dug himself is, I don't belive him.

At all

I don't think he is genuine (relatively given we are on a politician scale after all) and if the popular vote was on the other side, he would of flipped.

The arena deal was an "Nenshi Success" (even if in the end it really wasn't his), Farkas needed to be on the other side of that come hell or high water.

Now, could he be 100% straight on this particular issue? Sure, but its own past actions that have made me, and other voters, feel that he is lying out his butt.

His core supporters are older suburbanites who want to keep their property taxes low. That’s a cohort that I’d wager doesn’t want public money spent on an arena. So I don’t see anything inconsistent about Farkas’ stance on this.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by united

Was there an option to have an alternative Airport Mayor?

[Pipty]

To be honest, we might be closer to a cup if the flames left and we get a new franchise with an expansion draft a few years after. None of this #### management over the last 30+ years lol.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Pipty

To be honest, we might be closer to a cup if the flames left and we get a new franchise with an expansion draft a few years after. None of this #### management over the last 30+ years lol.

It's a long long way off still, but believe this,


If the city and the team cannot get it figured out and the team is forced to relocate?

Calgary will not see NHL hockey again for decades....if ever.

[Pipty]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It's a long long way off still, but believe this,


If the city and the team cannot get it figured out and the team is forced to relocate?

Calgary will not see NHL hockey again for decades....if ever.

We would still have a huge market to be an option for relocation of a team like the Coyotes, Panthers. Don't think it would be decades, maybe a decade though. Still would be no different in terms of number of cups or even playoff series wins.

[2ArmBands]

On Edwards... has anyone seen CNRL and how they conduct their business? This shouldn’t be surprising at all.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It's a long long way off still, but believe this,


If the city and the team cannot get it figured out and the team is forced to relocate?

Calgary will not see NHL hockey again for decades....if ever.

Relocation is an idle threat.

Calgary is a healthier market than a a bunch of others in the US. The Flames are being greedy, plain and simple. Go ahead and try and move, and spend less than you’re spending note on the arena you want.

[Macman]

More than likely this is just a move to throw a wrench into the upcoming civic election and get a feel for where candidates and the public stand on the issue.
I love the Dome but we also need a new arena and hopefully the Flames aren't planning on leaving which I doubt at this point.
Yeah $70 million is a lot of money from taxpayers but it's money well spent in this case and Calgary needs these facilities/infrastructure. Governments waste a lot more amounts than this and have nothing to show for.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Mull

I align with him on this very issue. The hole he dug himself is, I don't belive him.

At all

I don't think he is genuine (relatively given we are on a politician scale after all) and if the popular vote was on the other side, he would of flipped.

The arena deal was an "Nenshi Success" (even if in the end it really wasn't his), Farkas needed to be on the other side of that come hell or high water.

Now, could he be 100% straight on this particular issue? Sure, but its own past actions that have made me, and other voters, feel that he is lying out his butt.

Farkas is essentially Nenshi’s opposite but they we were mostly aligned on this arena issue and didn’t want the public subsidizing the Flames owners. I think people are quick to say Farkas isn’t genuine because he’s a conservative and not a trendy liberal. However, his message is very consistent when it comes to spending money and also allowing people to be socially liberal.

I don’t want to turn this thread into politics but just pointing that out.

It will be interesting to see who is most vocal about supporting this new arena deal as it was previously Davison.