Again, I am in no way trying to defend Trump, his policies, or his behaviour. I think he's deplorable as a human and as a leader. This isn't a good vs. bad debate - I just prefer to hold anyone and everyone accountable and refuse to turn a blind eye just because they are on "my team". Tired of all politicians getting away with their BS.
I think the argument is you’re attempting to hold one side far more accountable for demonstrably less. If one person says “the sky is red, am the sun god, and I control the tides and winds with my mind. I have destroyed solar systems and dove into the depths of the seas. My opponent is an actual alien and will subjugate our planet. She also eats babies. She’s eating a baby right now.” and the other says “dogs can’t look up” it is not holding them accountable to say “haha see they both lie!”
In my opinion, candidates always use subjective angles to promote their perspectives. Putting twists on things isn't specifically a left or right thing, or a Democrat-Republican thing. They all do do it. The difference is how Trump Republicans flat out make up wild sensational stuff that have no basis in reality. Things like; "they are going to take your guns", "they are going to execute babies after they are born", and "immigrants are eating people's pets". Surely people can tell the difference between things like that and Harris angling facts about having job and economic growth during her vice presidency without mentioning the backdrop of the pandemic (which I think is a fair point, and Trump should have challenged that more, but didn't). Can Harris be criticized for some things, certainly. She is a politician not above criticism just like every politician who has ever lived.
I wish the Democrats could go into a debate and do exactly what Trump does so people who support him could see just how stupid he looks. Say things like, "they want to make it law to put guns in the hands of school children", or "Republicans want to force all women to get pregnant against their will".
Because that is the kind of stuff Trump does.
I think this is the thing we are all missing here, Harris's fallacious statements are not in the same category as Trumps, and the gulling thing is that this isn't even a Trump specific thing.
The Dems go out and say, if I do some cleaver accounting, or political spin, I can makes claims about the the extremism and poor governance record of republics. But they are always directionally true.
The Reps make up complete strawmen lacking any grounding, usually something that is far more likely to be a consequence of their actions then the democrats. Children dying, well lets live in a world where there are not proper medical or family benefits and everyone owns a gun. Taking away your guns, while most states restrict felons access to fire arms and they want to lock more people up. No control of the boarder, well lets cut government spending on everything. To much inflation, more tariffs. Every single claim they make is not only false, but they are the only side steering things in the direction they fear monger about.
I think it's OK to point out where Harris was spinning, it's probably even good.
But I will stick with my statement to say "Everyone is calling Trump out for his lies, and ignoring all of the lies Harris told" is a disingenuous statement at best, because their statements aren't even within the same category, spin is categorically different than a lie, they should be called out for it, but they should not be equated to the man who couldn't find truth if it was the size of Trump tower.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to #-3 For This Useful Post:
Normally I'd say..."If your opponent is making mistakes, don't interrupt them"
But in this case, it just fuels the Trumper fire.
No way! Not the Donald we know?!?!
The problem for me is...Trump acts insane all the time. His supporters lap it up like Oliver Twist and his gruel. So more minutes and more insanity work in his favour and Harris only did okay.
Honestly though, I've Judged Jr. High debaters better than both of them. She was a Lawyer? And that was the best she could do?
They were bad and they should feel bad for debating so badly. That whole thing was a joke.
For the next debate they should put each of them in those Sumo Fat-suits and make them wrestle!
It'd be far more entertaining and significantly more informative.
But they'd have to compete against the American Gladiators as well. I'm talking about the original cast! Those guys have to be drawing Social Security by now.
Good for ratings and it creates jobs which is good for the economy. Big win for the nation overall.
I believe this is from Taylor Swift's movie or documentary or whatever, but shows you the internal debate among her team (the guy is her dad i believe)
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Cappy For This Useful Post:
I thought that in terms of tactics she handled the debate brilliantly. I do miss an earlier era of politics where the debates were more substantive. Obama vs. Romney seems like ages ago. But Trump has turned debates into this weird game of slinging zingers, dodging tough questions, playing loose with the facts, and especially getting your opponent to look bad while you look good. You don't debate the issues, you debate your opponent. It's a game played for the media and the low-information voter, as well as to rally one's base by looking like a winner. Harris played that game, and played it far better than Trump last night.
My favorite technique she used multiple times: She'd make a personal attack at him that she knew he wouldn't be able to resist responding to... but she'd make it in the midst of a longer response, and end the response with the appeal to voters. In this way, while she kept him focused on his personal grievances, while making sure that her answers included an appeal to the people. This set up this stark contrast in priorities and focus, with Trump almost never talking about having policies that helped Americans. This is so much different from the "we're gonna win so much you're gonna' get tired of winning" Trump of eight years ago.
She dodged some questions, but she also made sure that none of her dodges stuck, because she'd dodge by giving him bait that he couldn't resist. She used emotional appeals effectively, especially talking about abortion. She avoided taking the bait on race and allowing herself to be painted as the victim. And most importantly, she showed Trump as someone who could be manipulated by playing to his narcissism, which has always been an underlying narrative about him, but which has never been proven to the extent that it was last night.
The immigration questions was the biggest example of this: everyone knows that's her biggest weakness, and Trump's biggest strength. She was always going to lose any policy discussion there. Instead, ignore the policy, take a jab at Trump over his rallies, close it with an appeal to the people over their priorities, and then let Trump spin off the rails and totally forget to hold her accountable. The topic that was her biggest weakness brought her the most replayed moment of the night, Trump going on the defensive about his rallies. She won the media cycle in a landslide. Would she have won to the same degree if she went on the defensive about her record on immigration, or drilled down into the weeds of any particular policy more? Absolutely not, and I'm not going to blame her for sacrificing idealistic debating standards for winning the game that's being played.
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to octothorp For This Useful Post:
Reading about Kamala's lies and dodges and whatever, and they were...harmless? Like literally boilerplate politician deception? Sure, we'd like it if our politicians to be honest and forthright but....like who is that? Not even right now, I mean going back to like ancient Greece and ####. Can you find me one politician who was honest every single time? Good luck. Lying is literally part of the game. Should it be called out? Sure, why not? But if you're looking for a level of purity where you can latch on to a politician who never lies even slightly....dare to dream, I guess.
Trump's lies are different because it shows how mentally deranged, broken, and irredeemable he is. At least with most politicians their lies are well thought out and serve a purpose. Trump's are complete bat#### babble that is pretty much psychotic, and his lunatic followers are only being further radicalized by him. We know it's not gonna matter to the cult, but just brushing it off as "We know he does it, so who cares?" is minimalizing the words of an extremely dangerous person.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Senator Clay Davis For This Useful Post:
I’ll compare that debate to a football game. When you lose 30-0 you leave the field knowing you got your asses kicked. You don’t tell the reporter you won the game.
Today I’m reading MAGAts who are saying Trump handily won that debacle.
I’ll compare that debate to a football game. When you lose 30-0 you leave the field knowing you got your asses kicked. You don’t tell the reporter you won the game.
Today I’m reading MAGAts who are saying Trump handily won that debacle.
OK, but those people also support Trump. Were you looking for an intelligent analysis from them? It's impressive they managed to operate a keyboard.
Our friend last night: “My nine-year-old son watched the debate with me. I didn’t tell him who I support. Afterward he says, ‘I like the lady. The man is mean and angry.‘“
He looked like his mugshot the whole time.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Wormius For This Useful Post:
