The New American Politics thread

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Hopefully from the ashes of the GOP something reasonable can rise.

I think conservatives will be shooting themselves in the foot for decades if they somehow make Trump their candidate.

I think he's entirely unelectable that being the case here are the important numbers 80, 79, 83. Those are the ages of the three oldest members of the US Supreme Court (Scalia, Kennedy, Ginsburg) when the next president is elected. That'll be 5 of 9 aged 60 or younger and the DNC appointees will have a 20 year majority on the court.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It absolutely is, because...

These topics have nothing to do with each other. It is quintessential intellectual laziness to dismiss ideas without considering them for reasons that have nothing to do with the content of those ideas.

...

Sure, and I'm sort of taking out my frustrations on you regarding a problem I see with the way people approach difficult conversations on difficult topics these days. No one wants to hear from anyone with whom they disagree, and now it's as if the person you're hearing from must not only agree with you on the issue at hand, but on all other issues that are important. And it's incredibly easy to insulate yourself from people who say things that aren't harmonious with your existing worldview these days - on twitter? Just don't follow anyone but the people who say things that seem intuitive and block everyone who challenges any important perspectives you may hold.

This is a great post and we can see this process operating regularly, even here on CP where people are selectively blocking other users because they don't want to go through the rigor of actually reading what other people are saying based on past discussions they may have not agreed with. The compartmentalization of the world only shuts us off from alternative viewpoints and information. Insulating oneself from certain thoughts and expressions and only reading what is agreeable will only create more silos of ignorance and prejudiced partisanship. Technology has only made this easier as we can selectively block, filter, and follow only that which we disagree/agree with.

I don't agree with Scott Adams, Trump, Carson et al. on a huge swathe of issues and ideas. Taking the broad stroke of then saying that everything else they do or say is invalidated is intellectually lazy or even conceited. There are insights that can be gleaned from the thought processes of everybody as we all draw from different pools of knowledge and experience. Even if you fundamentally disagree with those ideas, contemplating them does wonders in expanding your world view and understanding of human thought and behavior and goes to explaining why people do what they do and why the world is the way it is (or why Moon ranted so much about our local sports team).

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

"I have no time for someone who doesn't have the correct belief about [abortion/god/homosexuality/race/taxes/the military/guns]" is pretty much how U.S. politics have become dysfunctional.

The unexamined assumption is that each of those complex subjects can be broken down to a binary right/wrong belief, and those on the wrong side of that binary choice are irredeemably bad people not worth engaging with. This ideological litmus test characterizes both the ideological right and the ideological left. People who have a binary outlook on life seem to have tremendous difficulty understanding that not everyone shares their limitation. If we all saw the world in binary terms, democracy wouldn't even work. Only a totalitarian society can function without nuance, tolerance, and compromise.

I would print that on a t-shirt and wear it!

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is possible. I think Romney was the best GOP candidate in a long time, and it is a shame that he isn't giving it one more go this time around.

I'd probably agree that Magic Underwear was the best candidate for the GOP in a long time.

And that right there tells you everything you need to know about the quality of candidates from the GOP. A guy who believes in magic underwear, and who was at best an average candidate is the best candidate for the GOP in recent memory. He was running neck and neck in 2012 in polling with Sarah Freakin' Palin before she bailed.

[PsYcNeT]

That's me, living life in a hugbox. Nailed it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Frankly, other than his VP selection, I didn't mind McCain all that much.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Frankly, other than his VP selection, I didn't mind McCain all that much.

But, uh, doesn't that say a whole lot?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I mean, I guess. I'm pretty unlikely to be enthusiastic about any GOP candidate just given my political views. I don't think McCain would have been a terrible president or anything; the biggest problem I would have had would have been the potential that he might die.

[tjinaz]

I have no time for someone who doesn't have the correct belief about [abortion/god/homosexuality/race/taxes/the military/guns]" is pretty much how U.S. politics have become dysfunctional.

The unexamined assumption is that each of those complex subjects can be broken down to a binary right/wrong belief, and those on the wrong side of that binary choice are irredeemably bad people not worth engaging with. This ideological litmus test characterizes both the ideological right and the ideological left. People who have a binary outlook on life seem to have tremendous difficulty understanding that not everyone shares their limitation. If we all saw the world in binary terms, democracy wouldn't even work. Only a totalitarian society can function without nuance, tolerance, and compromise.

That is kinda what this message board has become. Take a look at this whole thread as well as the US mass shooting one. There are no exchanges of ideas only the continued re hashing of the same talking points and ideology. The majority of the opposing viewpoints and posters have already been silenced or shouted down.

[PsYcNeT]

Please provide a list of posters that have been Silenced on CP.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Please provide a list of posters that have been Silenced on CP.

The first one that comes to mind starts with an F, and ended with a tze.

[tjinaz]

Silenced as in they no longer post here. Nickerjones comes to mind. PIM King is much less active. Azure.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Knalus

The first one that comes to mind starts with an F, and ended with a tze.

Naw, he's still here. *waves*

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Silenced as in they no longer post here.

If they don't post here anymore, isn't that kind of them creating their own hugbox to avoid opinions they disagree with?

[ernie]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is possible. I think Romney was the best GOP candidate in a long time, and it is a shame that he isn't giving it one more go this time around.

Much of the GOP establishment doesn't do itself any favors. They really dislike Trump and Cruz (for good reason) but ever since Nixon and the southern strategy they have to court the what amounts to the evangelical christians and, well, quite frankly the bigoted elements of the party. They can't afford for the Tea Party to actually split and form a second right of center option so they pander. But they don't really like to. Many don't want to go down the Cheney war hawk path again either.

So what seems to be happening is the establishment selects a firmly center candidate (McCain, Romney) to be their nominee and then they select a more right wing running mate to satiate the Tea Party wing. But the Tea Party has quickly learned they have teeth and basically own the republican party because of it right now. The obstruction in congress and constantly putting stuff into bills so the president vetoes is the Tea Party. While the minority of the GOP, they hold the party by it's balls as without them the GOP has no hope of winning anything ever.

The GOP establishment is scrambling a bit right now. They initially consolidated around Bush but he made too many missteps out of the gate and well he's not a good candidate. Now they seem to be pushing Rubio forward and he's gaining some traction but he's no where near the quality candidate McCain and Romney were. I'll be honest, if people opened their ears and listened instead of voting party lines the election would be a landslide if a potato ran for the democrats.

No idea what will happen but right now only about 25% of registered republicans are paying regular attention according to 538. Opinions right now are swayed by whose face they see on TV the most and that's Trump. As people pay attention (usually a week or so before they have to vote in the primaries) I think you are still likely to see big losses for Trump and Carson and big gains for Rubio.

In the end this election does show everything that is wrong with the US political system. You have a bunch of candidates who will just say anything in the hopes they get elected. They don't really have a concern for the country or an actual vision. Certainly true on the GOP side. The democrat side at least has Bernie who while he certainly still panders is one guy who for the most part has spent his elected life trying to help.

And all this happens right around another solid jobs report for the US. Another 200k+ jobs added in November, unemployment at it's lowest levels since 2008, and average wages are increasing. Yes the growth is still somewhat sluggish however there are no recession signs at all so the economy can just continue to grow. Despite all the BS they continually try to throw at the administration, they can never get around the fact that the administration shepherded the country through a very deep recession and brought them out just as good the other side and likely better. And you'll notice that for the most part the GOP is not even really touching the economy right now beyond a week or so of complaining about the APAC free trade deal. It's all about who is going to save you from the big bogeyman that is terrorism (and as has been pointed out by many pundits you'll find that the not completely bat #### crazy candidates approach to this issue really doesn't tangibly differ from the Obama administration. No one is going to put boots on the ground.)

[heep223]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

That is kinda what this message board has become. Take a look at this whole thread as well as the US mass shooting one. There are no exchanges of ideas only the continued re hashing of the same talking points and ideology. The majority of the opposing viewpoints and posters have already been silenced or shouted down.

I mean, I'm pretty new here but, there is some pretty intelligent exchanges of ideas going on in multiple threads IMO. It's more the unintelligible barbs that are shouted down.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Naw, he's still here. *waves*

If they don't post here anymore, isn't that kind of them creating their own hugbox to avoid opinions they disagree with?

He wasn't silenced. He requested that his account be banned of his own volition for other reasons.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

He wasn't silenced. He requested that his account be banned of his own volition for other reasons.

Probably not directed at me, but yeah.

He's moderately active on Twitter as well still.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Itse

The more I listen to Trump, the more I'm getting the feeling that he's just trying to see how extreme he can go.

Well, with all he has said, it's not like he can go back on any previous work (if he had any need to). He probably has no option but to try might as well just take this as far as it will go.

Worst case for him is he gets the OJ Simpson treatment at golf clubs and restaurants..

[ernie]

And as is often the case when he says something so outlandish that the GOP has to get mad at him he plays the "run as an independent" card (well in this case it's the I'll stick with the party if I get treated fairly card....same thing). He does this knowing that the GOP can't afford to have him actually run as an indpendent as he will likely bleed away a couple of percent and that wouldn't be good for the GOPs chances. And he has the financial means to do so just for fun. I expect the GOP talking heads will make nice with him once again.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/politi...016/index.html

The GOP should have shut him and his ilk down early but now they've all been forced to the right and they can't extricate themselves from it.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by old-fart

I'd probably agree that Magic Underwear was the best candidate for the GOP in a long time.

And that right there tells you everything you need to know about the quality of candidates from the GOP. A guy who believes in magic underwear, and who was at best an average candidate is the best candidate for the GOP in recent memory. He was running neck and neck in 2012 in polling with Sarah Freakin' Palin before she bailed.

So what if he believes in "magical underwear". Are we not all crucifying (and rightfully so) Trump for his unconstitutional stance on banning muslims from entering the country?