Star Trek General Discussion

[Hack&Lube]

Remember how in All Good Things future Picard was a confused old man and Riker was a grumpy and emotionally broken man?

This isn't so far off.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Remember how in All Good Things future Picard was a confused old man and Riker was a grumpy and emotionally broken man?

This isn't so far off.

Yeah that's the weird thing about this season, it actually respects AGT. Even Geordi's kids' names are the same.

[Yeah_Baby]

Yeah, that's why I don't super jive with the 'this is out of character' compliant. People change!

[Inglewood Jack]

yes people change, but it's better when you see how and why it happens over a period of time, in an arc. if there's a long gap since the last time you've seen them and they could be totally different for reasons you never get to see, then what's the point of even having established characters at all? like where do you draw the line for how much off-screen change is acceptable? e.g. say Geordi is now the quadrant's most desired, successful womanizer and runs a harem with dozens of Orions he can access at any time. how did that happen? people change!

we were with the TOS cast for a quarter century and they definitely evolved over time, but still by the end they felt like same crew we knew in the 60's. maybe it's cause the TNG crew has been at it 11 years (!) longer than that, so they've all lost their minds a little bit.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I'm generally quite happy with the episode although I can understand where people could nitpick it to death.

As a proud owner of all the Nitpicker's Guides to Trek (bought from Apple Books at Brentwood Mall) as a kid, I think I've grown out of that phase.

Tha said, why the hell does this random changling have the exact same bucket design as Odo? Wasn't that just a random bucket he got from the Cardassian or Bajorans that found and took care of him early on? It's not like all changlings have the same buckets as some cultural thing unless it was found with him like Superman's costume.

Made this exact comment to my wife.

1. WTF? Regular founders don't even use buckets.
2. The bucket was bajoran, odo had it prior to ever meeting the federation.
3. Pretty dope easter egg, but as much of this season so far, is really just a loosely veiled easter egg like punch to the face of our nostalgia in hopes we will ignore the dumbness of other moments.

I still think Riker is a shapeshifter. There's no explanation for how they chose the titan outside of Riker being in on the other team.

Also I was waiting for picard to spin them around the last asteroid a la booby trap.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Seems like there are lot of Starfleet that hold resentment towards Picard over Wolf 359.

I get some resentment... but the amount of hate he gets for Locutus when it was out of his control seems like it goes too far.

I actually think it's one of the best things they've done with the Picard series. One of it's only truly redeeming qualities has been this look at what a deassimilated person has to face, and also what other people have to face in dealing with the deassimilated. They haven't made the direct comparison yet because it's a step beyond the example i will use, but to me they're playing it like ex-nazi scientists after ww2.

It always bothered me that Picard was so easily reaccepted and folded back in post Wolf 359. Even if he wasn't in control, he and the knowledge he gave to the borg directly led to over 10,000 deaths. That would be pretty hard to face, even if you knew all of the particulars about assimilation.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Sr. Mints

Captain dick: "get the changeling to come to you. Maybe steal its pot"

Seven: " I'm assuming you're not meaning it's cannabis?"

Jesus.

I am an avid enjoyer of the cannabis, but I literally went WTF out loud at the screen when Seven said this. But I suppose everyone is back to smoking on bridges these days, so why not throw pot back into the proverbial mix.

Extremely stupid though. Starfleet doesn't even allow non-synthehol anymore.

[Monahammer]

Last "nitpick" (there was a lot wrong with the episode but willing to look past it):

The bar scene in the holodeck: They have been hyper lazy with sets across the 3 seasons of the show. But the story they told in there is one that's pretty sad. Picard wasn't spending time on his farm all these years, he was a an old barfly, usually sitting alone in a dingy bar in San Francisco instead of france. Right beside starfleet academy. So he's been in deep depression all this time? Also, why not bring back guinan if you're going to spend all that time in her bar.

I thought for sure that they were going to bring back Moriarty during this scene to get out of the jam. One of the other major occasions where the separate holodeck subsystems are mentioned is during his creation and imprisonment. Now I am convinced they will be in a similar jam later in the season.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Last "nitpick" (there was a lot wrong with the episode but willing to look past it):

The bar scene in the holodeck: They have been hyper lazy with sets across the 3 seasons of the show. But the story they told in there is one that's pretty sad. Picard wasn't spending time on his farm all these years, he was a an old barfly, usually sitting alone in a dingy bar in San Francisco instead of france. Right beside starfleet academy. So he's been in deep depression all this time? Also, why not bring back guinan if you're going to spend all that time in her bar.

I thought for sure that they were going to bring back Moriarty during this scene to get out of the jam. One of the other major occasions where the separate holodeck subsystems are mentioned is during his creation and imprisonment. Now I am convinced they will be in a similar jam later in the season.

Its so hard though.

"We're out of power Captain! We're going to have to drain Life Support!!"

"F' it. Lets get a holo-drink on the Holodeck before we inevitably die."

Oh yeah, its got it own power that apparently cant be used to, ya know, keep people alive, as opposed to making delicious beverages.

The entire Holodeck thing was ridiculous. The whole evangelizing Jack Crusher and telling 'The Jack Crusher Chronicles' over and over again was so stupid.

Is there a count somewhere of how many times they said the name 'Jack Crusher' in that one hour span?

Whats your Jack Crusher story? Do you have a Jack Crusher story. I have a Jack Crusher story, I know we're dying but let me tell my Jack Crusher story.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Locke

"We're out of power Captain! We're going to have to drain Life Support!!"

"F' it. Lets get a holo-drink on the Holodeck before we inevitably die."

Oh yeah, its got it own power that apparently cant be used to, ya know, keep people alive, as opposed to making delicious beverages.

Right?! "It has its own power supply"? Then go get some jumper cables, ya goofs!

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Yeah, that's why I don't super jive with the 'this is out of character' compliant. People change!

My issue wasn't that it was "out of character" my issue was that it was so suddenly out of character.

They did a very good job of handling it in the following episode. It also explains why Picard was acting the way he did, because he saw his close friend freezing up.

[OutOfTheCube]

I feel like if this was the first season of Picard people wouldn't be so hard on it. It's easy to be hyper critical after the first two bad seasons but this #### is like Wrath of Khan compared to those so far.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by timun

Right?! "It has its own power supply"? Then go get some jumper cables, ya goofs!

Like...nobody, and I mean nobody with any semblance of a brain would have a dedicated, untouchable power supply just for the Holodeck.

That would be....INSANE.

"Computer! Manifest....Extension Cords..."

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Like...nobody, and I mean nobody with any semblance of a brain would have a dedicated, untouchable power supply just for the Holodeck.

That would be....INSANE.

"Computer! Manifest....Extension Cords..."

Who knows, maybe after Wolf 359 and the Dominion War, Starfleet's head of HR decided on a new compassionate policy where the crew of a dying ship gets to live out one last fantasy together as the ship implodes around them.

To facilitate this policy from corporate, they had to use a totally separate and incompatible power supply. I'll say it's a miniature artificial singularity to power the grand visions of Starfleet head office.

Also the head of HR is Barclay (who is married to Countess Regina Barthalomew, thus courting the wrath of Moriarty).

[Monahammer]

It's pretty interesting that we're almost halfway through the season and I don't even have a basic idea of the villain's motive so far. I mean, it's clear that Beverly is still withholding significant information about the miraculous conception involved here... but what would changelings want with Picard's son who has never met him and no one knows he's actually Picard's son?

Also, is Vadic not a changeling? She cut off a piece of her clothes to communicate with the changelings (I think, lighting was very poor, and I suppose it's uncertain she was communicating with changelings) so is she just wearing a changeling suit? Is it controlling her like a meat puppet? Why did she seem to have alterior motivations? Is her only purpose to involve plummer's daughter as a brooding captain as another one of these surreal homages they're trying to cram in every nook and cranny of this thing?

I don't understand the reason for this conflict at all, and I can't even work out anything that makes sense.

My current guess is that Lore is pulling the strings, the link-orphan changelings are taking the role that hugh and the orphan borg previously took rather than being self motivated, and that vadic is thus controlled by this changeling suit. Why she's necessary at all is beyond me. Moriarty would then be reactivated to fight lore after lore almost fully defeats the crew- I'm also throwing out a vague guess that if Riker isn't a changeling, then he most certainly is going to die heroically in the initial Lore struggle. Say end of ep 8.

[Shazam]

It's a mystery!! Yeah, it's why this season still sucks. They put scenes out of order for no real reason other they think it builds suspense but in actual fact it's just annoying and stupid.

* why is Riker such a wimp??? *

* what's Vadic's motivation??? *

* why are there changlings??!!! *

* why is Raffi still on the show?? *

omg I must watch to find out!!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

It's pretty interesting that we're almost halfway through the season and I don't even have a basic idea of the villain's motive so far. I mean, it's clear that Beverly is still withholding significant information about the miraculous conception involved here... but what would changelings want with Picard's son who has never met him and no one knows he's actually Picard's son?

Also, is Vadic not a changeling? She cut off a piece of her clothes to communicate with the changelings (I think, lighting was very poor, and I suppose it's uncertain she was communicating with changelings) so is she just wearing a changeling suit? Is it controlling her like a meat puppet? Why did she seem to have alterior motivations? Is her only purpose to involve plummer's daughter as a brooding captain as another one of these surreal homages they're trying to cram in every nook and cranny of this thing?

I don't understand the reason for this conflict at all, and I can't even work out anything that makes sense.

My current guess is that Lore is pulling the strings, the link-orphan changelings are taking the role that hugh and the orphan borg previously took rather than being self motivated, and that vadic is thus controlled by this changeling suit. Why she's necessary at all is beyond me. Moriarty would then be reactivated to fight lore after lore almost fully defeats the crew- I'm also throwing out a vague guess that if Riker isn't a changeling, then he most certainly is going to die heroically in the initial Lore struggle. Say end of ep 8.

We haven't found out what the "Red Door" and branches in Jack's visions is about. Normally I hate these JJ Lost mystery box types of things in Star Trek like the stupid Red Angel of Discovery but the showrunner did 12 Monkeys and I think he has a good handle on how to make it work.

I have heard two theories that make sense to me (major spoilers if true - some of it was reportedly leaked from the subtitles in the UK and Switzerland so don't click if you don't want to be spoiled):

Spoiler!

1. They are Pah-Wraiths who have promised the renegade changelings access to the lost Dominion Fleet who were not destroyed in the wormhole but only time shifted. The renegade changlings are trying to get to Jack because somehow he's able to channel something since his half-brother also had the ability to become a traveler

2. Starfleet removed all of Picards implants but did not know about microscopic Borg nano remnants in his body. Jack, being the biological son inherited these Borg traces and he is being called to by something in one of the Borg collectives - not the Jurati collective as the show runner said they are not involved this season. There are reports the subtitles in some regions actually allude to the Borg Queen being the "find me" voice.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Shazam

It's a mystery!! Yeah, it's why this season still sucks. They put scenes out of order for no real reason other they think it builds suspense but in actual fact it's just annoying and stupid.

* why is Riker such a wimp??? *

* what's Vadic's motivation??? *

* why are there changlings??!!! *

* why is Raffi still on the show?? *

omg I must watch to find out!!

I totally agree with you, but I'm watching this #### anyways so I'm trying to find some intrigue. It's ham fisted but there is some here, if they somehow make it coherent. But, I find this method of story telling extremely tedious and annoying as you mentioned. No idea why it's so hot to do it this way. But I mentioned that, they slip into "flashbacks" so easily this season. It's lazy as #### and just a way of creating story points that weren't previously baked into the characters- extra stupid because these are some of the longest running characters in the history of television (in terms of overall screen time) and they are all well fleshed out already.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

We haven't found out what the "Red Door" and branches in Jack's visions is about. Normally I hate these JJ Lost mystery box types of things in Star Trek like the stupid Red Angel of Discovery but the showrunner did 12 Monkeys and I think he has a good handle on how to make it work.

I've been actively trying to ignore the whole visions in dreams #### because it's the stupid and proliferate in cinema and television right now. I hate it. It would be way cooler if jack had just stolen some space pot from Vadic and now he owed a syndicate of orion pirates a #### ton of money, the changelings are just the new enforcers.

Per your guesses. LOL. Both are hysterical. I love it. If it was 1 and they pulled it off and we got to see said fleet, well i would have a nostalgia overload and potentially die. Even better if Sisko comes back as a result. Wasn't there some strange rumor of Avery Brooks coming out of the woodwork? If 2 I will scream and throw #### at my television.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I've been actively trying to ignore the whole visions in dreams #### because it's the stupid and proliferate in cinema and television right now. I hate it. It would be way cooler if jack had just stolen some space pot from Vadic and now he owed a syndicate of orion pirates a #### ton of money, the changelings are just the new enforcers.

Per your guesses. LOL. Both are hysterical. I love it. If it was 1 and they pulled it off and we got to see said fleet, well i would have a nostalgia overload and potentially die. Even better if Sisko comes back as a result. Wasn't there some strange rumor of Avery Brooks coming out of the woodwork? If 2 I will scream and throw #### at my television.

I've since edited my post since I found out my guess #2 was leaked in subtitles in Europe who labelled who the voice in the vision was.