MJMDT (Michael Jackson Memorial Day Thread)

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

I dunno, if I'm accused of something like child molestation, I'd rather have my name cleared instead of paying the people off to make it go away, but maybe I'm just different

You're also not a public figure who has to deal with worldwide media covering your case. The amount of stress you would be under would be nowhere near the amount of stress he was under. I can see why he would just want it all to go away.

And I think even had he decided to fight and won the case there would still be people calling him a molester who got off because he's a celebrity so really he was in a lose-lose situation.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by Dion

Ask yourself why he paid out millions to those who accused him. I find it odd that his lawyers always urged him to settle. Like, why pay out money if you've done nothing wrong?

Originally Posted by Inferno

You ever think maybe the guy was tired of all the stress he was being put under and just wanted it to end so he could move on and had the money to come to a settlement so he did? Coming to a settlement doesnt mean he was admitting he was guilty.

Originally Posted by CMPunk

I dunno, if I'm accused of something like child molestation, I'd rather have my name cleared instead of paying the people off to make it go away, but maybe I'm just different

As a counter arguement, OJ Simpson brought in all his resources to hire the dream team of lawyers to argue that he didn't kill anybody. Do any you believe he's innocent
My point is that no matter if he settled out of court (hush money), or got a court case dismissed or ruled against his favour (Had more money, celebrity bias), large segments of the public would always believe that he did those things whether he actually did or not. Imo, there is probably some truth to the allegation, but I would also be open to the idea that there are those that took advantage of him for financial gain as well

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Dion

Where there's smoke there's fire.

I've seen that quote 3 times in the various MJ threads. I'm damn glad you people are not criminal judges. That's the sort of thinking that lands innocent people in jail. "The cops don't arrest people unless they are guilty". Oi.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Dion

Where there's smoke there's fire. If i'm being accused of molesting children i'm sure as hell not going to give my accuser any money. All that payout did was cause more grief for MJ as the child molestation issue never went away. Instead it raised further doubts as to his innocence.

There's also blowing smoke up people's ass. The term "Where there's smoke there's fire" is so overrated it's not even funny. And like I said before even had he fought and won there would still be people calling him a molester saying he got off because of his celebrity status.

[malcolmk14]

Just watched this and God damn, John Mayer is amazing.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I've seen that quote 3 times in the various MJ threads. I'm damn glad you people are not criminal judges. That's the sort of thinking that lands innocent people in jail. "The cops don't arrest people unless they are guilty". Oi.

You agree with MJ allowing little boys to sleep in the same bed with him?

If he wasn't involved in strange behaviours there wouldn't be this cloud of suspicion over him. He brought all this upon himself.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Just watched this and God damn, John Mayer is amazing.

I hate all of John Mayer's actual songs but he actually has some of the most respectable guitar chops out of all the mainstream popular acts these days. His cover work is amazing. Human Nature is also one of the only MJ songs that I like.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Dion

You agree with MJ allowing little boys to sleep in the same bed with him?

It was a stupid decision to do that and he took a huge risk but that also doesnt mean because he had kids sleeping in his bed he was molesting them.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It was a stupid decision to do that and he took a huge risk but that also doesnt mean because he had kids sleeping in his bed he was molesting them.

Agreed.

If this debate was "Has Michael Jackson made some really stupid mistakes" we're all on the same page.

But it appears to be "Did Michael Jackson molest children".

You can drive drunk without killing someone. It's a really, REALLY bad decision, but you don't get charged with murder for it, and you almost have to get caught in the act to be charged at all.

[Igottago]

This thread reminds me of the movie "12 Angry Men". Its an old movie about a jury trying to come to a decision on convicting someone of murder. There's the guys who are completely convinced that he's guilty, guys who don't want to condemn a man without being 100% certain, and guys who are going back and forth based on evidence presented.

Same thing is happening with people and what they think of Michael Jackson. At the end of the day, we are all just speculating at this point anyways. There are a handful of people that know the truth, and who knows if that will ever come out.

All I know is I can't condemn a man of such horrific crimes unless I'm 100% sure its true. MJ deserves a lot of negative feelings and spite if the molestation allegations were true. If not, then him and his family deserve a massive apology. But until we hear the cold hard truth, this is all just speculation based on our personal biases and perceptions of what went on.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Igottago

This thread reminds me of the movie "12 Angry Men". Its an old movie about a jury trying to come to a decision on convicting someone of murder. There's the guys who are completely convinced that he's guilty, guys who don't want to condemn a man without being 100% certain, and guys who are going back and forth based on evidence presented.

Same thing is happening with people and what they think of Michael Jackson. At the end of the day, we are all just speculating at this point anyways. There are a handful of people that know the truth, and who knows if that will ever come out.

All I know is I can't condemn a man of such horrific crimes unless I'm 100% sure its true. MJ deserves a lot of negative feelings and spite if the molestation allegations were true. If not, then him and his family deserve a massive apology. But until we hear the cold hard truth, this is all just speculation based on our personal biases and perceptions of what went on.

Just wait until Jordan Chandler is 75 years old and the original Jacksons are dead. On his death bed he'll come out and say he BS'd the whole thing and the world will explode.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It was a stupid decision to do that and he took a huge risk but that also doesnt mean because he had kids sleeping in his bed he was molesting them.

It raises great suspicion when he chooses to settle civil suits when he says he's not guilty.

Yet some of us here are supposed to ignore his disturbing behaviour and worship the ground he walks on.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Dion

It raises great suspicion when he chooses to settle civil suits when he says he's not guilty.

Yet some of us here are supposed to ignore his disturbing behaviour and worship the ground he walks on.

Link

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Complaints about the coverage and media included using sensational headlines to draw in readers and viewers when the content itself did not support the headline,[16] accepting stories of Jackson's alleged criminal activity in return for money,[30] accepting confidential leaked material from the police investigation in return for money paid,[9] deliberately using pictures of Jackson's appearance at its worst,[8] a lack of objectivity[8] and using headlines that strongly implied Jackson's guilt.[8]
The New York Post ran the headline "Peter Pan or Pervert", despite minimal information being disclosed by the police.[8] Just two weeks after the allegations were reported, the headline

(...)

Diane Dimond—a journalist who would spend the next 15 years trying to prove Jackson was a pedophile—ran a story stating, "And one more shocker, Hard Copy has obtained new documents in the criminal investigation of Michael Jackson, and they are chilling; they contain the name of child movie actor Macaulay Culkin". The document itself stated that Culkin strongly denied being harmed by Jackson.[16]



Two tabloid television shows accepted confidential leaked documents from the Los Angeles County Department of Children's Services for $20,000.[9] A number of Jackson's former employees—most of whom had worked at his ranch—sold stories to the tabloids of alleged prior sexual misconduct on Jackson's part, instead of reporting their claims to police. One couple initially asked for $100,000 claiming that Jackson sexually caressed Macaulay Culkin. They were prepared to expand upon this allegation for a fee of $500,000, whereby they would allege that Jackson put his hands down Culkin's pants. When the story broke, Culkin strongly denied the allegation, and did so again in court.[30] A former security guard made various allegations about Jackson, saying he was fired because he "knew too much",[32] and alleged that he was ordered by Jackson to destroy a photo of a naked boy. Instead of reporting this to police, Hard Copy accepted the story in return for $150,000.[32] Afterwards, Jackson's maid, Branca Francia, alleged that she "quit in disgust" after seeing Jackson in a shower with a child, but did not inform the police. It later emerged that Francia was actually fired in 1991, but nevertheless sold her story to Hard Copy for $20,000.[32]

It really was quite the circus, and MJ was supposed to be on a World Tour.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by alltherage

It really was quite the circus, and MJ was supposed to be on a World Tour.

You are fogetting that if MJ wasn't involved in a pattern of inappropriate behavior none of this would have happened. In fact he saw nothing wrong with what he was doing. I don't feel sorry for him - he brought this upon himself.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Dion

You are fogetting that if MJ wasn't involved in a pattern of inappropriate behavior none of this would have happened. In fact he saw nothing wrong with what he was doing. I don't feel sorry for him - he brought this upon himself.

I'm not forgetting that though. As I mentioned earlier, It's clear he made some bad choices. We all do. That doesn't give us the right to assume the absolute worst case scenario happened.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by alltherage

I'm not forgetting that though. As I mentioned earlier, It's clear he made some bad choices. We all do. That doesn't give us the right to assume the absolute worst case scenario happened.

I have a right to an opinion on this issue. His inappropriate behaviour and his eagerness to settle civil suits raises a great cloud of suspicion in my mind.

If MJ admitted his inappropriate behaviour was wrong I might feel sorry for him. Truth is I find it very disturbing that he saw nothing wrong with little boys sleeping in the same bed with him. He was a very sick and disturbing individual.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Dion

It raises great suspicion when he chooses to settle civil suits when he says he's not guilty.

Yet some of us here are supposed to ignore his disturbing behaviour and worship the ground he walks on.

Not if you look at it with an open mind. I don't worship the ground he walks on. His music doesnt even fit my musical taste though I respect him as a musician just like I do The Beatles or the Rolling Stones. I dont have any bias for the guy as I might if say James Hetfield was accused of something like this.

But when I look at the facts I just dont see a molester. I see a guy who was a victim of greed and the fact he was a "big kid" who made some bad risky decisions used against him. He could have fought it but I think he just had enough and decided to give the parents what they wanted. I know that most if not all of us wouldnt use their kid to get rich but there's some messed up parents in this world who would think of themselves before their kids.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by alltherage

I'm not forgetting that though. As I mentioned earlier, It's clear he made some bad choices. We all do. That doesn't give us the right to assume the absolute worst case scenario happened.

People have the right to assume the worst case scenerio... they don't have a right to harm him or punish him on those assumptions though.


It's like those internet men who arrange to meet up with teens and then claim that they just wanted to be friends or help them with their homework... or whatever. I think it would be ok to assume the worst.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

People have the right to assume the worst case scenerio... they don't have a right to harm him or punish him on those assumptions though.


It's like those internet men who arrange to meet up with teens and then claim that they just wanted to be friends or help them with their homework... or whatever. I think it would be ok to assume the worst.

Except in Jackson's case, there are organizations and groups that stand to make a lot of money on making him look bad. Tabloids, ex employees who hold a grudge, opportunist parents, etc. Im not sure of his guilt or innocence, but I can't fully accept one side of the story without considering the other.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Except in Jackson's case, there are organizations and groups that stand to make a lot of money on making him look bad. Tabloids, ex employees who hold a grudge, opportunist parents, etc. Im not sure of his guilt or innocence, but I can't fully accept one side of the story without considering the other.

Well we all have our opinions based on the information we've received and our perception and interpretation of said information.

Some people think that Stephen Harper is the greatest thing since sliced bread and others think he's the devil incarnate.

There are lots of people out there who think OJ is/was innocent of all charges and there are lots who think he's an SOB murderer.

Everybody has an opinion but nobody really knows (or at least very few know). But that doesn't stop us from our beliefs. Sometimes you just gotta sh*t or get off the pot. You can't sit on the fence forever.