Man dies after being tasered in Vancouver Airport

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I was listening to the ROy Greene show and apparently some guy video taped the whole thing. 15 minutes worth of tape. The RCMP asked him that day during the investigation if they could borrow the tape. The guy agreed as long as they gave it back within 48 hrs. They haven't given it back yet and the guy is now suing the RCMP for the return of his property. There must be something on that tape that the police don't want people to know about.

Must be. That's the only reasonable explanation.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by fotze

What the hell is thrivel?

Careful there with those 3 red boxes. I lost a red box for pointing out typos/spelling mistakes in a similar fasion

As far as this case goes, the man was being aggressive, reportedly throwing around equipment and holding up a stapler. People argue it could be justified because the RCMP had little recourse...but I still don't believe the RCMP claim that pepper spray couldn't be used because there were people in the area. Many reports claim the arrival hall was near deserted and pepper spray isn't tear gas, it pretty much is a very accurate weapon from a certain range.

In any case, they should have realized that the man didn't speak english and instead of shouting commands to him in english and then interpreting him as refusing to obey (instead of being frightened/confused), they should have found a polish speaker.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Careful there with those 3 red boxes. I lost a red box for pointing out typos/spelling mistakes in a similar fasion

As far as this case goes, the man was being aggressive, reportedly throwing around equipment and holding up a stapler. People argue it could be justified because the RCMP had little recourse...but I still don't believe the RCMP claim that pepper spray couldn't be used because there were people in the area. Many reports claim the arrival hall was near deserted and pepper spray isn't tear gas, it pretty much is a very accurate weapon from a certain range.

In any case, they should have realized that the man didn't speak english and instead of shouting commands to him in english and then interpreting him as refusing to obey (instead of being frightened/confused), they should have found a polish speaker.

See the discussion we had on the kid who got tasered at the public forum.

[metallicat]

Let's say the guy wasn't drunk, or on drugs. I still have no problem with police using tasers to take down some out of control whack-job. People don't have a right to act completely out of control whether they speak another language, or whether their luggage got lost.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Let's say the guy wasn't drunk, or on drugs. I still have no problem with police using tasers to take down some out of control whack-job. People don't have a right to act completely out of control whether they speak another language, or whether their luggage got lost.

The use of force option used isn't in question. It now has to be determined if they followed proper proceedure.

[Flashpoint]

This bump is the first I heard of this incident.

Anybody who freaks out at an airport like that deserves to get tazered. Sorry, but it isn't the wild west out here - you don't get to chuck crap around in airports and expect to get away with it. Violence will be met with violence - unfortunately in this case resulting in fatality.

A shame he died, but it isn't like the cops blew his head off or billy clubbed him. They tried to take him down safely. I suppose they could have maced him or tried to tackle him or something, but a tazer seems to be a far more effective means.

That's what you get for behaving like a hooligan in an airport.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

That's what you get for behaving like a hooligan in an airport.

You get death for behaving like a hooligan?

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

You get death for behaving like a hooligan?

I don't think that's what he means. You get dealt with by the police for acting like a hooligan in an airport.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

You get death for behaving like a hooligan?

No. You get arrested.

And again, it is very unfortunate the poor man died as a result of that arrest. But if someone decides to act like a moron in an airport I find it hard to put much blame on police for tazering him.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

I find it hard to put much blame on police for tazering him.

...as long as they deploy the tasers properly and the policies for how tasers are used are sound, reasonable and safe.... which is what the entire debate (or at least most of it) is about

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

...as long as they deploy the tasers properly and the policies for how tasers are used are sound, reasonable and safe.... which is what the entire debate (or at least most of it) is about

I guess the problem I have with this is would the guy have been left alone on his rampage in a time before Tasers were introduced? Or was there some other magical means of maintaining law and order back then?

[ken0042]

Well, I wouldn't call billy clubs "magical."

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

...as long as they deploy the tasers properly and the policies for how tasers are used are sound, reasonable and safe.... which is what the entire debate (or at least most of it) is about

Even if used properly there are always going to be exceptional cases though right? I mean peanut butter kills some people. Logically you would expect a few fatalities from 50,000 volts too. I guess that is the chance you take if you are going to go apesh-t at an airport.

Hmmmm... I wonder if anyone has ever died from pepper spray?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Even if used properly there are always going to be exceptional cases though right? I mean peanut butter kills some people. Logically you would expect a few fatalities from 50,000 volts too. I guess that is the chance you take if you are going to go apesh-t at an airport.

Hmmmm... I wonder if anyone has ever died from pepper spray?

and if it happened due to a freak accident where the police did everything right... neat.

the fact that they seized this tape and don't seem to want to release it is a tad eyebrow raising. just cause the guy went apesh-t at an airport doesn't give the police the right to do anything they want (including taking this tape and not giving it back).

[Burninator]

Are the police under any legal obligation to give it back? Or once you give evidence to the police can they do whatever they want with it until the investigation is over?

If I was in that situation I wouldn't give it to the police. I would make a copy first.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Are the police under any legal obligation to give it back? Or once you give evidence to the police can they do whatever they want with it until the investigation is over?

If I was in that situation I wouldn't give it to the police. I would make a copy first.

The police did promise to return his tape.

[longsuffering]

So if recent reports are to be believed, the victim basically surrendered and was tazered anyway?! Kind of seems like police yelling "Stop or I'll shoot" after they've already shot the guy.

Before I am accused of being anti-cop, I can assure you nothing could be further from the truth. Thankfully, I have had no reason to do anything except respect any law officers I have encountered.

That said, this whole thing smelled rotten to me from the start. When did the concept of reasonable force get tossed out? The victim may have damaged property, although a recent report suggested he knocked a computer off a table rather than threw a computer at anyone. No one, not even the RCMP, have suggested that the victim had presented a physical threat to anyone.

So the question is whether it is reasonable to tazer a person for destroying private property? I would say 'maybe' but only after all reasonable efforts to subdue him had been exhausted. By the sounds of things, these cops had decided to zap him before they even arrived on scene.

I have a tough time supporting that.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

So if recent reports are to be believed, the victim basically surrendered and was tazered anyway?! Kind of seems like police yelling "Stop or I'll shoot" after they've already shot the guy.

Before I am accused of being anti-cop, I can assure you nothing could be further from the truth. Thankfully, I have had no reason to do anything except respect any law officers I have encountered.

That said, this whole thing smelled rotten to me from the start. When did the concept of reasonable force get tossed out? The victim may have damaged property, although a recent report suggested he knocked a computer off a table rather than threw a computer at anyone. No one, not even the RCMP, have suggested that the victim had presented a physical threat to anyone.

So the question is whether it is reasonable to tazer a person for destroying private property? I would say 'maybe' but only after all reasonable efforts to subdue him had been exhausted. By the sounds of things, these cops had decided to zap him before they even arrived on scene.

I have a tough time supporting that.

he just happened to do it in a international ariport..and extremely sensitive place..cops are in a no win situation..if he had injured someone or continued to be out of control...or got away..the cops would be critized..if the man didnt die, this story doesnt even see the presses..

In Vancouver over the summer a man was shot and killed after he assualted a cop with a heavy chain and then a approached other cops at the scene waving that heavy chain..in the middle of granville just before 16th (a heavy traffic and pedestrian area)..cops will still hammered by by standers and the media...

[flylock shox]

nm

[MelBridgeman]

It wasn't clear at all...putting aside the grief i feel for the man and his family...it wasnt clear..I still think the cops did what they had to do...he kept fighting till the end