Should the Flames offer sheet Dylan Holloway?

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If the Flames want to offer sheet they should go Mercer, Byfield, Perfetti or Robertson.

Can you think of a reasonable scenario where a Flames offersheet to any of those players would be successful, without burdening the Flames themselves?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Could you explain why you feel Holloway is definitely worth a second? I'm just not seeing any on ice results that make me believe we should be considering an offer sheet so I'm curious why you're so confident it's a good idea.

The only reason people are pushing for it is because it is the Oilers. Wouldn't be a discussion if it was Ottawa.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

because Holloway is definitely worth a 2nd

I'm not sure he's worth the Flames 2nd (likely pick 33-40), while we're rebuilding.

Flames got a 2nd for Mangiapane. Mangi >>>> Holloway.

If we did it for a 3rd and the Oilers decided not to match, sure, I guess?

But I still don't think Holloway's that great, and doesn't really improve the Flames vs. just making our picks or using them in a trade for someone better.


Really just comes down to how good of a player you think he is. Since it doesn't appear other teams are lining up to offer sheet him either, I'm thinking there's some overvaluing of him going on here vs. how other GMs see him.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Can you think of a reasonable scenario where a Flames offersheet to any of those players would be successful, without burdening the Flames themselves?

I'd say the same about Holloway

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I would say offer sheets are just ineffective in general and that is why they are not used.

Ryan Kesler Sept 12, 2006 [11] 1 year, $1.9 million Vancouver Canucks Philadelphia Flyers Matched –
Thomas Vanek July 6, 2007 [35] 7 years, $50 million Buffalo Sabres Edmonton Oilers Matched –
Dustin Penner July 26, 2007 5 years, $21.5 million Anaheim Ducks Edmonton Oilers Not Matched 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in 2008
David Backes July 1, 2008 3 years, $7.5 million St. Louis Blues Vancouver Canucks Matched –
Steve Bernier July 8, 2008 1 year, $2.5 million Vancouver Canucks St. Louis Blues Matched –
Niklas Hjalmarsson July 9, 2010 4 years, $14 million Chicago Blackhawks San Jose Sharks Matched –
Shea Weber July 18, 2012[36] 14 years, $110 million Nashville Predators Philadelphia Flyers Matched[37] –
Ryan O'Reilly February 28, 2013[38] 2 years, $10 million Colorado Avalanche Calgary Flames Matched –
Sebastian Aho July 1, 2019[39] 5 years, $42.27 million Carolina Hurricanes Montreal Canadiens Matched[40] –
Jesperi Kotkaniemi August 28, 2021 1 year, $6.1 million Montreal Canadiens Carolina Hurricanes Not matched[41] 1st and 3rd round picks in 2022

If you offer something even somewhat reasonable, the other team just matches.

So you have to offer a boat anchor contract plus give up compensation to do so.

That doesn't seem like an effective team building tool to me. In a league where cap efficiency is king, why would you use a tool to add a player that will be massively inefficient cap wise?

Most of those players were cornerstones, or part of the core, of their teams. Meaning, unless you wildly overpay (Weber), or try to capitalize on a teams cap/money issues (arguably, Aho; Hjalmarsson; Penner), you are not getting those players.

Berniers, Penner, and Jasper K are the three that don't necessarily stick out as core players (Penner probably was):

- Bernier was matched with a pretty reasonable offer (not sure of the cap situation for the team at the time)

- Penner was not matched and they gave up 1,2,3 picks. Outside of Burke's city tough attitude, nothing happened. He had some productive seasons in Edmonton and ultimately was traded away for a Former 1st, a 1st, and a third.

- Jasperi K was, arguably, a more "core" piece of the Canadiens, being a couple years removed from a top 3 pick. He was also an allegedly spite offer sheet. The Canadiens didnt match and got a 1,3 pick. I couldnt imagine Montreal's issue was a cap crunch (i can't remember), but more of a value proposition.

Out of the dozen offer sheets that have been attempted, they failed due to:
- Core Player
- reasonable offer
- no cap or money issues

The ones that succeeded were arguably:
- non-core player
- overpay
- cap crunch

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I'd say the same about Holloway

Offer sheeting Holloway for 2yrs @ 2.25M AAV would be a big problem for the Oilers, and only cost the Flames a 3rd round pick. As well, the 2.25M salary isn't so high that it would hurt the Flames cap position (lol) or their bargaining position with similar players (Zary) in the future.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Offer sheeting Holloway for 2yrs @ 2.25M AAV would be a big problem for the Oilers, and only cost the Flames a 3rd round pick. As well, the 2.25M salary isn't so high that it would hurt the Flames cap position (lol) or their bargaining position with similar players (Zary) in the future.

I don't think you get him for the third round pick compensation bracket.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Could you explain why you feel Holloway is definitely worth a second? I'm just not seeing any on ice results that make me believe we should be considering an offer sheet so I'm curious why you're so confident it's a good idea.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

I think we all agree that the Oilers have done a terrible job developing him. Despite that fact, he has progressed at an almost identical rate to Zary. Their AHL numbers are very similar. The only real difference shows up in this past year, at the NHL levej. And that is primarily because of utilization, IMO. The Flames used Zary properly, and gave him an opportunity to succeed, whereas the Oilers let Holloway sit on the bench and get 4th line minutes. They had no choice but to play him in the playoffs and he looked much better.

He has speed, size and tools. All he needs is better management. If you could draft him with a 2nd, it's a great pick.

[Enoch Root]

I think a lot of people are wearing their Oilers Suck hats here. But it is their development of him that sucks, not the player

[Ba'alzamon]

look, if the Flames could do the third rounder bracket I'd be on board. But they can't. The third is tied up in the conditions of the Monahan trade.

Holloway is not worth a second rounder. He would have to improve to the point where he's at least at Mangiapane's level to be worth that, and I'll grant you that it's possible he could, but here's the thing: Mangiapane was better at 22 than Holloway is. Much better, in fact. His goals per 60 was almost as high as Holloway's points per 60, and he did that playing on the Flames' 4th line with Derek Ryan and Garnet Hathaway.

Also, Holloway would not go in the first round in a redraft, he would go in the second round. But that doesn't mean he's worth a second round pick in a trade; nor does the fact that he's technically better than the average second round player. If it did you'd see fourth liners get traded for second rounders way more often. A second round pick gets you a top six forward in a trade. Holloway is not that.

[FanIn80]

Again, what happens if Edmonton doesn't match? Then we're literally stuck with Holloway. How does that benefit us in any way?

[Hot_Flatus]

If the player was actually a potential breakout asset maybe. Holloway doesn't look like a good player, let alone one that you should give up draft capital for that could end up being a wash anyway when the dust settles.

[CaptainCrunch]

I mean sure, if you're willing to give up a second and no more for him. When he was drafted and all the hype started, I was already convinced that he was drafted way too early.



His offense has pretty much completely dried up and he's not good enough defensively. I guess if you're willing to dress him as a pp guy.


But if you have the 2nd round pick and want to burn it on a hail mary, sure.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

No. Accumulate picks and young centers only. We don't need more wingers.

We always need players who are better than our current players *cough Coronato cough*

[calumniate]

Dylan who?

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Holloway has just over half the points of Zary. In 26 more games. And I'd be shocked if Zary was offer sheeted.

If the Flames want to offer sheet they should go Mercer, Byfield, Perfetti or Robertson.

No, those guys are way older than Holloway and Zary would have similar points if he was playing on an offensively stacked Edmonton team.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The only reason people are pushing for it is because it is the Oilers. Wouldn't be a discussion if it was Ottawa.

lol, no it's for the player and the fact he has Stanley Cup final experience is a big bonus compared to other teams.

[Monahammer]

I'm 110% in for offersheeting Holloway up to a second. We have multiple seconds this year, and even if it's a really early second it would be hard to get value like Holloway there.

This is a guy who had 1.5 ppg in the NCAA in his sophomore season. The offensive potential is there, no doubt. We know the oil are also horrible at development.

Plus he's a born and raised Calgarian. Let's go save this kid.

[Monahammer]

He's also PPG in the AHL whenever he's sent down and gets top minutes. This is a guy to bet on having way better numbers in an increased role. The exact type of role he could have here.

[Monahammer]

2 mil year 1 6 mil year 2, make the QO a poison pill. FU Oilers.