[News] Zohorna recalled. Phillips and DeSimone assigned to Wranglers

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Agreed - right up there with the opinion that "Lucic is the worst player in the NHL."

He's in the bottom percentiles. Over his last 82 games (including the outburst against the Sharks), he has four goals and has taken a ton of penalties. The Flames have been outscored 41–29 with him on the ice, in large part because when he's on they typically haven't been able to generate anything of quality at all.

I like what we've seen in the last five games but practically every number we have points to it being completely unsustainable. It's been more than half a decade since he was a viable top-six option. He's on the same plane as guys like Reaves and Johnston. It actually reminds me a little of when Backlund was playing with McGrattan.

[mile]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1608531993868009472

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Agreed - right up there with the opinion that "Lucic is the worst player in the NHL."

There have been much worse opinions here. Lucic may not be the worst player in the NHL but he's much closer to being the worst than he is one of the best or even average. He's a depth player that shouldn't necessarily suit up for every game. That's been made apparent by how much better he's been since getting some rest.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Do they need to be stars though? I don't think Phillips needs to be a star. If he ended up being a 50pt buy I think people would be quite happy. I've never thought he was the answer, but he deserves a fair shot and he didn't get it. Not even close.

If this team was scoring more, etc, I wouldn't really question it as much, but with their lack of scoring, and putting Lucic on the second line, it's difficult to watch (I still don't think the Lucic experiment will last, but I'd love to be wrong on that one).

For sure ... 50 point players would definitely be a miss in not promoting them.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

He's in the bottom percentiles. Over his last 82 games (including the outburst against the Sharks), he has four goals and has taken a ton of penalties. The Flames have been outscored 41–29 with him on the ice, in large part because when he's on they typically haven't been able to generate anything of quality at all.

I like what we've seen in the last five games but practically every number we have points to it being completely unsustainable. It's been more than half a decade since he was a viable top-six option. He's on the same plane as guys like Reaves and Johnston. It actually reminds me a little of when Backlund was playing with McGrattan.

Do you watch the games?

[TheScorpion]

No, I hate hockey.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There have been much worse opinions here. Lucic may not be the worst player in the NHL but he's much closer to being the worst than he is one of the best or even average. He's a depth player that shouldn't necessarily suit up for every game. That's been made apparent by how much better he's been since getting some rest.

Well he's a fourth liner.

That puts him in the bottom 1/4 of forwards, and probably bottom 8% of NHLers off the hop.

Leave it at that and there's not much point in arguing.

Trying to make him one of the three worst in the league needs heavy lifting than goals and assists in my mind.

[dino7c]

Pretty hard to argue that Lucic hasn't been good lately

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Pretty hard to argue that Lucic hasn't been good lately

I'm not sure if anyone is arguing that ... he's skating faster than I've seen him in years. He's actually passing accurately again, which was by far his biggest strength in his first two years here. He was a legitimately good playmaker.

I think there have been slight cracks in the facade in more recent games but overall, it's been a positive. The question is whether that continues and I have my doubts.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah Lucic is in the 4th line range by almost any metric.

Looking at it purely from a stats perspective over the last two seasons (Relative Corsi, Relative xGF, Goals per 60, Assists per 60) he ranks somewhere in the 330th-340th range among forwards. Which means he’s comfortably the 10th or 11th best forward on most teams.

Which is longer term where he should be playing, 4th line. This little bump in the top 6 has been great, but I think most and even the biggest Lucic supporters would say it’s not sustainable long term for him to be a winger with Huberdeau and Kadri for this team to have success.

He is streaky though, and when he has confidence he can be a good playmaker and distributor of the puck. So while the confidence is up and he’s on the hot streak then ride that wave.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It is unless you are also eliminating "outliers" where they didn't score much for similarly arbitrary reasons. What you are doing is the very definition of biasing your results.

Even if you do that the Flames played 15 games in December (so far). They've faced 2 teams in the top third for goals against, and 10 in the bottom third for goals against. If you want to choose gaa instead it's essentially the same. 3 in the top third, and 9 in the bottom third.

Talking about them scoring more lately is biased in itself just based on who they are playing. They are still struggling to score.

Even if you leave SJ in, against the worst teams in the league for GA or GAA they would still be in the bottom half (near the middle) of the NHL based on average g/gp.

I'm not saying they haven't looked better, they have, but they are still struggling to score.

[united]

Interesting sampling of smaller stature players in the same ballpark of AHL production as Phillips. 4 of the 9 made it to NHL 100 games, but only Marchessault eclipsed 200 though Czarnik still has a shot at making it there, too. Here's hoping after a sufficient 30- to 40-game sample Phillips looks like the outlier in Marchessault and not the rest of the lot.

Jonathan Marchessault (175)
Cory Conacher (180)
Austin Czarnik (170)
Seth Griffith (190)
Chris Bourque (175)
Phil Varone (185)
Corey Locke (165)
Marc Arcobello (175)
Jeremy Bracco (195)

Matthew Phillips (165)

Weights from Elite Prospects.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Do they need to be stars though? I don't think Phillips needs to be a star. If he ended up being a 50pt buy I think people would be quite happy. I've never thought he was the answer, but he deserves a fair shot and he didn't get it. Not even close.

If this team was scoring more, etc, I wouldn't really question it as much, but with their lack of scoring, and putting Lucic on the second line, it's difficult to watch (I still don't think the Lucic experiment will last, but I'd love to be wrong on that one).

You can probably find 50 point guys that weigh more than 140 lbs though. He probably has to supply more than that if he wants to be on the roster.

[Reggie Dunlop]

I'm bitter about Zohorna being sent down.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Goriders

You can probably find 50 point guys that weigh more than 140 lbs though. He probably has to supply more than that if he wants to be on the roster.

I agree. I'd be on the Martin Gelinas, Martin St.Louis workout plan if I were Phillips.

To be clear. I don't think he'd be a 50 pt guy.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Goriders

You can probably find 50 point guys that weigh more than 140 lbs though. He probably has to supply more than that if he wants to be on the roster.

Only 113 forwards had 50+ points last season (avg about 3.5 per team), it’s not like 50 point guys grow on trees.

If he can get 50 points then his size should be irrelevant.

[Classic_Sniper]

Too bad Phillips got sent down, would’ve been nice to see the local kid get a game at home in front of his family and friends. But I don’t think Darryl cares too much for that sentimental stuff, to him it’s all about the best roster, winning all the time. I guess Phillips just couldn’t close the gaps on his forecheck enough for Darryl’s liking, at least for me, I thought that was noticeably the worst part of his game.

[Goriders]

As long as Sutter is here Phillips isn’t going to get on the roster unless 3 or 4 forwards get injured.

Since he’s a UFA after this season my guess is it’ll be the last season for him in the Flames organization. Not saying it’s fair. There’s not much else he can do. Other than gain 30 lbs.

If I were him I’d look elsewhere. Like Europe.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Goriders

As long as Sutter is here Phillips isn’t going to get on the roster unless 3 or 4 forwards get injured.

Since he’s a UFA after this season my guess is it’ll be the last season for him in the Flames organization. Not saying it’s fair. There’s not much else he can do. Other than gain 30 lbs.

If I were him I’d look elsewhere. Like Europe.

This doesn't add up for me.

If the line was that firm why would they call him up and play him in two games at all?

Plenty of options on the farm if that was the case.

[Goriders]

I just get the feeling he’s never going to be given a real shot. He was the leading scorer in the AHL. What more is he supposed to do?