[PGT] Flames lose 5-2 to the St Louis Boooos!

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Looking at the standings, the Flames could get to 26th pretty easily. Those bottom 6 teams, woof. I don’t think the Flames can be that bad if they try.

Time to start shaking these lines up, showcasing some guys for trades, and building towards next year.

You mean next decade right? There is no getting out from these contracts. Either the team figures it out...or the late 90s Young Guns Era is going to look like the land of hope compared to what these guys will do.

Mediocrity for 10 years...no high draft picks...no playoffs. They need to find 3-5 good years to shorten that and it needs to start soon...

[rooster]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

"It's a process".
"I have as much to blame as anyone else"

Guarantee that is what will be said.

Oh and listening to Derek Wills anytime he gives his analysis is head smashing.

I agree! Where the #### did they find Wills?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Flames are still a proven top six scoring forward away from having a complete team. That hole is obvious for anyone to see. The Flames made a mistake moving Monahan instead of Lucic. Lucic has been dead space for a few years, we've just lowered the bar so far for him that he has played t0 an acceptable level for the fans. He's the wort player in the NHL and has been for a few years. Flames should have dumped him while they could have.

This team is what it is. Treliving is going no where. Should have been fired after Gaudreau was not re-upped at a bargain contract or traded before his final year. They stuck with him and they are stuck with the team he built. Suter is not going anywhere, not after being granted a multi-year extension. This team is what it is. Not much future in the system, and even less with the plethora of picks bled to build this roster. Sit back and enjoy the growing pains. The only hope is the players already drafted can step in and fill the gaps. That means Zary, Pelletier, Coronado, Kuznetsov, and Poirier can step up and be quality NHL players. They fail and this team fails hard and for a long time.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Nice. Another coach. Who will Treliving choose for his 6th coach. I feel like the axe goes to Brad before he has the chance to find another coach. I don't think Sutter is the issue. The issue is our best players are not scoring.

They have been outcoached all season. Other than Tanev the defense doesn't even try to stop the cross ice pass when the other team is coming in 2 on 1. Love Muller as a player but why the hell is a career defensive specialist (one of the best ever) the powerplay coach? The players are standing or coasting not having a clue what their linemate is going to do next. Pretty sure on a podcast without naming names I heard a high up guy in the organization say he doesn't even go near the locker room after games after a loss because he doesn't want to be around the atmosphere created by one individual.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by tkflames

You mean next decade right? There is no getting out from these contracts. Either the team figures it out...or the late 90s Young Guns Era is going to look like the land of hope compared to what these guys will do.

Mediocrity for 10 years...no high draft picks...no playoffs. They need to find 3-5 good years to shorten that and it needs to start soon...

To be fair, the Flames could still blow it up if they want. The Flames are a bubble team now. Remove the quality support players and from the team, and Huberdeau/kadri won't be enough to keep this team out of the basement. And I can't imagine those two getting any better as they reach their mid 30s.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ it got Gaudreau 115 points playing on a regular line with Lindholm and Tkachuk

Huberdeau had 115 points while he was centered by Bennett and non elite other winger

Sutter has to figure out how he managed to get points out of one and not the other

And here they forced Bennet to play with that ####ing slug Brower.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Treliving did everything he could to maintain a winning roster. So far that looks like a failure, and that's 100% Brad's sword to fall on. It's unfortunate since I've generally agreed with his moves, but it's becoming clear the team as constructed isn't a winner.

At the same time I firmly disagree with the people blaming Darryl. His top players aren't performing in any situation - 5 on 5, powerplay etc. You need your top guys to make plays to win games and right now 10 is playing like a replacement level player. No idea what you do about that.

This is ultimately the main problem. We can bitch and moan about lower line players like Lucic dressing, but in order to win, your best players need to perform as your best players. That's not happening right now. The roster Brad has constructed simply isn't good enough on the top end.

The production of losing both Johnny and Tkachuk isn't being replaced, and the team lacks offensive depth to compensate. It's a really ####ty position to be in right now.

Either the roster finally figures out how to score on a consistent basis, or the team is going to have to try to find top 6 quality forwards outside of the organization that can contribute instantly. And that's easier said than done because those players - especially if they're younger - aren't given up easily by the teams that have them. They want to retain those players, unless you want to significantly overpay for them. Flames are in no position to be doing that, unless the team is really interested in one or two of our defenseman.

[bubbsy]

My thoughts on the game:
- flames were working very hard, not a effort issue in my perspective
- markham was fine
- wtf is lindholm doing on the first goal?? I hate that sutter called out the rookie I'm an giveaway yet not the completely dumb play by lindholm
- dube had another, generally solid game

Flames need 7 of 8 points in the final 4 games before the break before I sat stick a fork in them.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vedder

People act like this is the simplest decision in the world. You lose a bunch of money with a bottom feeder following the Iginla era. You build up a roster that is finally competitive, and your young stars leave. Are you immediately reverting to the rebuild without trying to salvage a competitive roster?

Easiest take to make in the world with very little skin in the game.

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison given the world we live in now, but the one season you can say the Flames actually did rebuild (2013-2014), the team had higher attendance than we've seen so far this season.

The only thing the team will lose is the potential for a couple games of playoff revenue. We're not getting that this season anyway.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Treliving did everything he could to maintain a winning roster. So far that looks like a failure, and that's 100% Brad's sword to fall on. It's unfortunate since I've generally agreed with his moves, but it's becoming clear the team as constructed isn't a winner.

At the same time I firmly disagree with the people blaming Darryl. His top players aren't performing in any situation - 5 on 5, powerplay etc. You need your top guys to make plays to win games and right now 10 is playing like a replacement level player. No idea what you do about that.

But maybe the top guys aren’t really “top guys”. I’m starting to think we’re seeing their best and it’s just not good enough.

[TheChief]

Its a message Sutter sent by having Lucic out there for many shifts in the third. Team needs to pull up their socks. They arnt listening to him and the results show that.



Sutter is all about he plays the players who deserve it.



I hate the narrative that the team quits on a coach. If that's the truth we really are screwed with this core.

[FlatLandFlamesFan]

FKn' hell at least be a proto typical air tight Sutter defense , all loosey goosey all over the ice.

Marky has been solid but when you give up the grade AAA chances against , he won't stop many.

Why can't we drive the net ? so much perimeter play bleh.

All those pieces and no execution...they need to find their way soon

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

They better turn it around quick then to get into second or third. First things first, taking into account win percentage, they are 6 points back of 4th for win percentage with two games in hand on that team. They are 4 points back of 3rd with no games in hand. Need to get to 4th before they can get to third. They are 4 points back of the 2nd place team but that team has 2 games in hand on the Flames.

The Canucks are 3 points back with 2 games in hand.
We're closer to 5th in the division then getting into 2/3.

Of course it's possible the team gets on a run and makes a 2/3 spot but a lot needs to go right and some people are acting like it's just gonna happen.

[Erick Estrada]

As bad as the Canucks season has been they now have a higher points percentage than the Flames. Puts into perspective what a disaster this season has been to date. They are really fortunate that a lot of the conference is underachieving as in a normal season they would probably be long out of a playoff spot.

[Iginla]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

90% of the fanbase was calling for it when Johnny decided to test free agency

And we had a few assets to trade in order to start it off nicely. Instead those assets were botched (or so it would appear).

[browna]

I know the result and overall team and fan mood gets tossed in here in a PGT, but the Flames had more chances than the Blues and played as well or better overall. But they lack overall team confidence, especially offensively, including not having a game breaker. Flames should’ve been up 2-1 or 3-1 before the Blues were up 2-1 and the game takes on a totally different tone.

And point to Mangipane for making the wrong read to take the forward along the boards on the 3-1 goal. And, watching again, point to him on the one everyone is blaming Mackey on; Mackey threw it into the middle of the ice because he thought Mangipane was going to do the (sometimes dangerous) set play where the center comes down low in the middle-ish of the ice as an outlet. Mangipane not on the same page and turned up ice.

In a vacuum if you take it game by game the Flames are playing decent hockey but are missing a offensive game breaker which Kadri was early in the year and should be Huberdeau as well. And because they are missing thst, the confidence levels aren’t the greatest, and, all these tight games (Flames have had 18 one goal games), without that extra goal at critical points in the game, the confidence remains low and mistakes are amplified.

But as a whole, the situation is troubling because it’s clear this team is putting in the work but not got that x factor to break a game open, and it’s not just individual slumps.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As bad as the Canucks season has been they now have a higher points percentage than the Flames. Puts into perspective what a disaster this season has been to date. They are really fortunate that a lot of the conference is underachieving as in a normal season they would probably be long out of a playoff spot.

At ".500" this far in, the team would always be in the g running for a playoff spot.

This team is showing no signs of wanting that though.

[Goriders]

My take.

The team looks in disarray. I don’t know how many times last night I said to myself WTF are they doing. This is a pretty veteran team with some very good players on it. Way too good to be looking like this.

Last season they looked well coached with the same coaching staff. This season. Especially lately. It looks like they don’t even practice. I know they lost two good players in the summer. But the guys they brought in to replace them aren’t ham and eggers.

Something looks to be wrong behind the scenes. I think it’s one of two things. Either the players don’t agree with the systems they are being forced to play and aren’t bought in. Or they have stopped listening to Sutter.

Most veteran teams that I’ve seen that aren’t performing to normal standards can usually be traced to not listening to an authoritarian coach who’s best before date has passed.

[Coach]

Players are people. Team dynamics are an important part of being successful. You can’t just flip Player X with n points and Player Y with n points and expect the same from everyone else too. Lindholm had his best ever season and his two line mates cut bait.

Imagine you have the best year of your life at work. Just kill it. Then your two most valuable partners leave. You bring in talented people to replace them, that doesn’t mean the relationship is the same.

This team is dull and as Ashax mentioned, it’s just a team full of players from all over. No familial ties amongst the top end of the group. I told think it’s an accident that career flames like Backlund and Andersson standout vs players brought here later.

[FireGilbert]

Enough about the Flames, how bad is the Dome experience? Think it might have even gotten worse in the decade since I last attended a game. Won’t talk much about the library atmosphere since the Flames didn’t give much to cheer about, but the other entertainment left much to be desired. The tv timeout breaks were dull and as great as Chris Sutter is, it felt like they were leaning on him way too much to get the crowd going. The Xmas music was nice but that was a bare minimum and the intermission concerts felt like a good idea executed poorly as you couldn’t see them from most of the seats. Add in the 40 minute parking wait, crazy bathroom lines, and the claustrophobic intermission concourse, I don’t regret attending but don’t feel I got great value.