[Signing] Canucks sign JT Miller to extension (7 years, $8 mil AAV)

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

People can love Miller's contract, people can dislike Kadri's contract. But people shouldn't bash Kadri's contract to boast Miller's contract.


What has Miller done for the Canucks seriously. Did he help them win the division? Nope. Did he help them make the playoff? Nope. All he did was scored lots of points, so he can land himself a big contract. I'm sure he'll continue to score lots of points but will he be able to help the team make the jump to make the playoff?

Thisthisthis.

Miller's contract is marginally less sucky, but only by the smallest of margins. 1.5 years younge, but 1 million more in AAV. Certainly not enough of a 'leg up' to brag about.

A producer, but arguably not a the game breaking type. Or as Treliving would put it, one who 'shies' away from the bright lights and big stage, rather than thrives in it, which is more the make up of Kadri given his recent performance.

I think you take the guy that leaves nothing in the tank when the games matter when all is said and done. We've had big point producers here before who didn't have the extra gear for playoffs. Even though we might be sacrificing some point production with the changes I think most feel good about the exchange given that playoff success is now what matter most to the fanbase.

Currently I am quite satisfied with the signing as a fan. We'll see how that ages, though.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It was reported that he turned down more money elsewhere.

Also, arguing that it didn't go well for him (which is what you're doing) does not support your conclusion that it's a bad contract.

Yet again - I'm not making an argument - I'm refuting one (which inherently includes an argument, but I mean I'm not introducing this idea to support my position).

Saying it's a good deal because he chose us when he could have chosen anyone just doesn't make much sense.

And I'm skeptical he ever had an offer higher than $49M actually on the table, let alone in mid-August...he probably turned down a higher AAV though.


Is it really so crazy to say the 7x7M is a bad contract for a 32 yo whose 2nd best year was 61 pts? And in the same breath I'll always say it was still probably the right move to make.


Here's a more interesting question: who are some good comparables that had such a deviation to a new career high so late in their career?

The first that came to mind for me was Ray Whitney:
26: 75 pt pace
27: 71 pts
30: 76 pts (2002-03*)
34: 83 pts (06-07)
36: 77 pts
39: 77 pts

His 30 yo season actually adjusts higher than his 34 yo season when you factor league scoring rates. Most of the other years were 60+ pt pace, so not really a huge deviation.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Yet again - I'm not making an argument - I'm refuting one (which inherently includes an argument, but I mean I'm not introducing this idea to support my position).

Saying it's a good deal because he chose us when he could have chosen anyone just doesn't make much sense.

And I'm skeptical he ever had an offer higher than $49M actually on the table, let alone in mid-August...he probably turned down a higher AAV though.


Is it really so crazy to say the 7x7M is a bad contract for a 32 yo whose 2nd best year was 61 pts? And in the same breath I'll always say it was still probably the right move to make.


Here's a more interesting question: who are some good comparables that had such a deviation to a new career high so late in their career?

The first that came to mind for me was Ray Whitney:
26: 75 pt pace
27: 71 pts
30: 76 pts (2002-03*)
34: 83 pts (06-07)
36: 77 pts
39: 77 pts

His 30 yo season actually adjusts higher than his 34 yo season when you factor league scoring rates. Most of the other years were 60+ pt pace, so not really a huge deviation.

points points points points points
There is more to hockey than points fyi

I think the debate comes when you say Kadri is for sure a bad deal but Miller is a good one. Miller will make more money, is weaker defensively, less physical, has won less, and has more conditions on his contract. Slightly younger and more points overall I will give you.

Seems like a silly hill for a Flames fan to die on

you are also calling Kadri and multiple reporters liars who said matter of fact Kadri had larger $$ offers on the table and why are you so hung up on mid August? He could have singed a 7x7 on day one, he wanted to wait on the Avs and he also wanted to be on a good team. Neither the Islanders nor the Flames in early July were that.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

A producer, but arguably not a the game breaking type. Or as Treliving would put it, one who 'shies' away from the bright lights and big stage, rather than thrives in it, which is more the make up of Kadri given his recent performance.

Ah, the "big game player! Knows how to win!" Schtick. The turbocharged flat four engine of hockey discussions...

Doesn't Miller have more OT winners than anyone on that team since he's been there? And he was over a point per game in their lone playoff run.

Miller isn't the reason Vancouver has been mediocre. That has sometimes been to blame on weak depth at forward (not as much an issue now) and a lack of any competent non-Quinn-Hughes defenceman (still very much an issue). Simply put, they rely too much on their goalie.

[Moneyhands23]

Sorry if this has already come up, but the canucks are 2mil+ over the cap.

Do they have to move someone before the season starts or does LTIR save them?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Sorry if this has already come up, but the canucks are 2mil+ over the cap.

Do they have to move someone before the season starts or does LTIR save them?

Ferland is on Robidas island.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Sorry if this has already come up, but the canucks are 2mil+ over the cap.

Do they have to move someone before the season starts or does LTIR save them?

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Ferland is on Robidas island.

Ya I know there's a fair amount on LTIR. For some reason I thought the team had to be cap compliant on day 1 then LTIR kicked in. But I definitely wasn't sure

[activeStick]

Kevin Woodley (goalie guru) was on the FAN960 this morning and also is surprised at the Canucks bringing Miller back, highlighting the defeciencies on their blueline.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

points points points points points
There is more to hockey than points fyi

I think the debate comes when you say Kadri is for sure a bad deal but Miller is a good one. Miller will make more money, is weaker defensively, less physical, has won less, and has more conditions on his contract. Slightly younger and more points overall I will give you.

Seems like a silly hill for a Flames fan to die on

you are also calling Kadri and multiple reporters liars who said matter of fact Kadri had larger $$ offers on the table and why are you so hung up on mid August? He could have singed a 7x7 on day one, he wanted to wait on the Avs and he also wanted to be on a good team. Neither the Islanders nor the Flames in early July were that.

Multiple reporters were liars who said matter of fact Kadri had signed with NYI...but I'm sure we can take other face-saving platitudes to the bank. Mid-August is relevant because 5 weeks is pretty much unprecedented for a top tier UFA. Parise/Suter took like 4 days and it was considered a drawn-out saga.


Last time I checked you needed to score at least one goal to win a game. Of course there is more to hockey, but you exaggerate the gulf between Kadri/Miller in those areas...and ignore Miller's achievements - his ppg over the last 3 seasons is actually slightly higher than Gaudreau.

It seems your argument is predicated on Kadri being just a bit worse than he was last year, whereas I expect him to regress to his mean, if not fall below it sooner than later.