[PGT] Blues 3 - Flames 1

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Jon Gillies has a 4.10 GAA and a 0.863 SP in 20 games this year, and you see him as a"logical" upgrade on Mike Smith? This idea is terrible.


Oh, the hyperbole. You talk like Brad Treliving should lose his job over this.

Most people were ready to throw rittich away at the beginning of this year and thought he was gifted the backup position more than he earned it. I wont pretend like I expected him to be this good, I didn't. But there is the point. The flames saw something in him and put their trust in him that he would develop.

Obviously my post about gillies was hyperbole, I dont think he is any kind of solution. I was responding to your post where you said you didn't have any reason to think that there are any goalies ot there that would be an upgrade to Smith that wouldn't cost the flames to acquire.

He's on a top team and his play both on the stats sheet and the eye test tells he story that he has cost the team way more than he has helped them.

Below 60th in save percentage and you dont believe that a throwaway goalie would be an improvement...

The most dangerous part of Smith this year is that he has moments and games where he makes you want to think that he can do it, but he breaks too many hearts and is too old to put any more time and effort in. There is no happy ending for Smith here

[Lanny_McDonald]

That was a tough one to watch. The Flames didn't play great, but they were still the better team by a pretty substantial margin. My only question is, was that Santa in goal for the Flames yesterday? Santa wears a big red suit and distributes gifts at this time of year, and that was an apt description of the guy in net for the Flames. St. Louis was gifted a win. This one was another Mike Smith special. We're up to five so far this year (10 points!).

I don't know how the apologists keep defending this guy, because he's no longer a NHL goaltender. It is time for the Flames to move on from Mike Smith, but they won't be able to do it as long as he is on the roster. No one is going to take him in trade, so the Flames will have to make a move internally and eat his salary. This means making a move to one of the guys from the minors. For Smith, the minors is the best place for him right now, where he might be able to get his game and head back together. This will also give the Flames an idea what they have with Gillies at the NHL level. Because of Smith's poor play, this is a low risk move. The Flames would still have Smith in the minors as a fallback position if Gillies, or someone else, can't step up and improve on the stellar tending Smith has provided this season.

This team looks pretty stacked and ready to go, with the exception of a goaltender. It is time to see if they can address the problem internally, or be forced to bring in another tender at the deadline. What could be an exciting season is dependent on this one key decision. I hope Treliving has the gumption to make the right move.

[Resolute 14]

As others have said, last night pretty much came down to goaltending.

Jake Allen was very good while Mike Smith belongs in the AHL. Can't fault Peters for trying to give Smith an easy assignment, but Christ.

All we can really do is hope that Rittich can carry the load until the deadline, and then pray that Treliving can find an NHL quality goalie to either back him up or go 1-1A with. Because Mike Smith is not going to help this team succeed.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

As others have said, last night pretty much came down to goaltending.

Jake Allen was very good while Mike Smith belongs in the AHL. Can't fault Peters for trying to give Smith an easy assignment, but Christ.

All we can really do is hope that Rittich can carry the load until the deadline, and then pray that Treliving can find an NHL quality goalie to either back him up or go 1-1A with. Because Mike Smith is not going to help this team succeed.

I think this might have been the last real chance.
Rittich has started a bunch in a row. Smith 'needed' a start. This was the one to give him in his backup role.
And he was bad again.
I believe Treliving has been hoping a mid season change was not necessary. I think yesterday helps cement that a change is necessary.
It's far from the hyperbole that many are wailing and moaning about, but I think the serious search is on now.

[bubbsy]

Glad i wasn't able to tune in for the 2nd half of the game.

Oh well, though I'm a bit concerned about more laxidazical starts creeping back into the group, lots to be happy about, can't complain about being a top the division and top 3 in the conference.

That being said, all i want(ed) for Christmas.... Was... To be double digits over the no-good oilers

[edslunch]

Also, where is the secondary scoring?

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Flames have nine forwards with more than ten points. That is right in line with the top teams in the West, and within range of the top three Eastern Conference teams. Scoring and offensive depth are not much of an issue for this team.


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Your points are valid, and yes, the team is still up in the standings. But to me it appears that, especially in the last few games, Tkachuk hasn’t been as good as earlier in the season, and when the top line isn’t scoring the depth hasn’t picked up the slack.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It’s all about the quality and effort put into the GDT. I know, I know make it yourself but if you’re gonna make it - put some effort into it!
When it’s like last game, we see the results from the team.

If you want the Flames to win : lineups, channel and time. A little story for context.

The real pep man lost it for CGY and I ain’t even kidding.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

As others have said, last night pretty much came down to goaltending.

Jake Allen was very good while Mike Smith belongs in the AHL. Can't fault Peters for trying to give Smith an easy assignment, but Christ.

All we can really do is hope that Rittich can carry the load until the deadline, and then pray that Treliving can find an NHL quality goalie to either back him up or go 1-1A with. Because Mike Smith is not going to help this team succeed.

Does anyone really think Treliving has the stones to demote Smith? They have been handling him with kid gloves all season like they are almost afraid to hurt his feelings. It's kind of a bizarre situation really the way this organization walks around on egg shells handling Smith. I'm sure he's a prideful guy but his NHL career is coming to an end and it's never pretty when it happens to competitive guys like Smith. The sooner this organization gets the balls to deal with this situation the sooner this team can move forward as right now he's the big question mark holding this team back.

[Inglewood Jack]

The Coyotes connection has to be thing keeping the relationship alive at this point. I believe Treliving is hesitant to walk back his declarations that Smith is an athletic freak that can dunk a basketball. You know, the usual stuff that lets you determine whether a goalie is going to be good or not.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Does anyone really think Treliving has the stones to demote Smith? They have been handling him with kid gloves all season like they are almost afraid to hurt his feelings. It's kind of a bizarre situation really the way this organization walks around on egg shells handling Smith. I'm sure he's a prideful guy but his NHL career is coming to an end and it's never pretty. The sooner this organization gets the balls to deal with this situation the sooner this team can move forward as right now he's the big question mark holding this team back.

Hows that?

They came into the season believing he was their #1. They treated him as such until he started proving otherwise.

They then handed the reins to Rittich who has handled it pretty well. He is now, clearly, the guy who will get the majority of games.

Im not sure what people want Peters/Treliving to do. Rittich just started 3 games in 4 nights on the road and then again against TB.

Rittich can't play EVERY game as you still need your backup to rest your starter at times. This was the game to do that. Rittich has never played more than 48 games in a season. There is no other option to upgrade on Smith right now, so you wait until something makes sense and hope Rittich continues to show he may be a legit #1.

If/when a deal is to be made to upgrade the crease, then you do so and if it means sending Smith down, there is no question that's what Tre will do. Though because of money its likely Smith goes the other way.

[Strange Brew]

I think the issue with Smith, as perhaps it would be with any somewhat accomplished veteran, is that once you make a certain type of move there is no going back.

If you send him to the A for some work, or make a waiver pickup or cheap acquisition to play some games, Smith may not take it well. That’s not a slam on his character, just what you might expect at this stage in his career.

The assertion that there are no better options than Smith is somewhat odd given his play. I suspect those who believe Smith is still the best option would change their tune once the GM made a move. Kind of like how Brouwer was a perfectly acceptable 4th liner until the GM decided he preferred to pay him not to play for the team.

I really believe the clock is ticking for Smith. Yes the Flames are in a nice spot in the standings but there is more than half a season to go and this is not a team that has proven anything yet. Goaltending and secondary scoring are still the things that worry me for ray of year. Thankfully the team is in a nice spot right now and on balance have played extremely well.

[Bingo]

Flames depth ...

If you look at the league as a whole, sort each team by production and then remove the top three forwards the Flames are ranked 10th.

Here is the ranking

Row Labels	Sum of Total Points
T.B	170
MTL	153
TOR	148
WSH	143
S.J	142
OTT	133
WPG	131
VAN	127
VGK	127
CGY	126
PIT	125
COL	124
NSH	123
NYI	122
DET	121
STL	118
FLA	115
ANA	115
CBJ	112
MIN	110
PHI	109
NYR	107
CHI	105
N.J	105
ARI	101
BUF	97
BOS	97
DAL	95
L.A	93
CAR	90
EDM	84

Defensemen if you rank and take out the top two dmen per team. Flames ranked 17th in this stat

Row Labels	Sum of Total Points
T.B	51
CBJ	47
NSH	43
CHI	41
PIT	38
VAN	36
NYR	35
PHI	35
VGK	35
WSH	34
DET	34
EDM	34
WPG	34
BUF	33
MIN	33
CAR	32
CGY	32
S.J	32
DAL	32
N.J	31
COL	30
TOR	29
STL	28
FLA	28
NYI	27
OTT	26
ANA	24
MTL	24
BOS	23
L.A	22
ARI	22

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Your points are valid, and yes, the team is still up in the standings. But to me it appears that, especially in the last few games, Tkachuk hasn’t been as good as earlier in the season, and when the top line isn’t scoring the depth hasn’t picked up the slack.

The second line was the best line in the ice in the TB game.




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[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Does anyone really think Treliving has the stones to demote Smith? They have been handling him with kid gloves all season like they are almost afraid to hurt his feelings. It's kind of a bizarre situation really the way this organization walks around on egg shells handling Smith. I'm sure he's a prideful guy but his NHL career is coming to an end and it's never pretty when it happens to competitive guys like Smith. The sooner this organization gets the balls to deal with this situation the sooner this team can move forward as right now he's the big question mark holding this team back.

It's not a question of "balls", but of logistics. It's unlikely we can trade Smith right now, and demoting him creates a host of problems. Notably, Gilles is pretty much a non-factor at this point, while Parsons and Schneider have less than 40 pro games each. None of them could come up and expect to be effective as a back-up, and demoting Smith to the AHL locks one or both of the actual prospects in the ECHL.

Basically, we are stuck with Smith until the deadline and when the rosters expand. At this point, all we can do is hope that Rittich is a starter in this league, and that Smith can come in as the back-up and not hurt the team the way he did yesterday more often than not.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

...Basically, we are stuck with Smith until the deadline and when the rosters expand. At this point, all we can do is hope that Rittich is a starter in this league, and that Smith can come in as the back-up and not hurt the team the way he did yesterday more often than not.

That is not the only hope. There is no reason to think that Smith cannot continue to deliver wins at the same pace he has this season even with his current level of play. It seems likely that he will still come up with some clutch performances here and there, because this is what he has done to this point of the year. It’s not like he can’t win games; even with all the mistakes, his overall poor play and bad goals he continues to pick up wins. I don’t see why this would suddenly now change, and I think the coaches will continue to use him like they have for the past six or seven weeks.



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[868904]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Does anyone really think Treliving has the stones to demote Smith? They have been handling him with kid gloves all season like they are almost afraid to hurt his feelings. It's kind of a bizarre situation really the way this organization walks around on egg shells handling Smith. I'm sure he's a prideful guy but his NHL career is coming to an end and it's never pretty when it happens to competitive guys like Smith. The sooner this organization gets the balls to deal with this situation the sooner this team can move forward as right now he's the big question mark holding this team back.

They are giving Smith a long rope because there aren’t any better realistic options. They don’t have cap space for a guy like Bobrovsky even if they were okay with the acquisition cost, which they probably aren’t. Hell the cost for guys like Kiemper and Johnson is still probably a second round pick, this board will freak out when that trade Is made.

The goalies in Stockton are worse than Smith right now.

Flames have no option but to give Smith a long rope. It’s not about them not seeing what we see or having some undying loyalty to a former Coyote, it’s about there not being very good alternative options.

The big kick in the balls is Gillies. He was suppose to be close. Instead, he’s worse than Smith in the AHL than Smith at the NHL level.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That is not the only hope. There is no reason to think that Smith cannot continue to deliver wins at the same pace he has this season even with his current level of play. It seems likely that he will still come up with some clutch performances here and there, because this is what he has done to this point of the year. It’s not like he can’t win games; even with all the mistakes, his overall poor play and bad goals he continues to pick up wins. I don’t see why this would suddenly now change, and I think the coaches will continue to use him like they have for the past six or seven weeks.

Of the 21 games Mike Smith has played in, we have given up 3+ goals in 13 of them and Smith has had a sub-.900 save percentage in 12. He's 2-8-1 with 1ND in those games.

Smith has sucked in four of every seven games he's played. His win-loss total is only as good as it is because the offence has bailed his ass out a number of times already.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Hows that?

They came into the season believing he was their #1. They treated him as such until he started proving otherwise.

They then handed the reins to Rittich who has handled it pretty well. He is now, clearly, the guy who will get the majority of games.

Im not sure what people want Peters/Treliving to do. Rittich just started 3 games in 4 nights on the road and then again against TB.

Rittich can't play EVERY game as you still need your backup to rest your starter at times. This was the game to do that. Rittich has never played more than 48 games in a season. There is no other option to upgrade on Smith right now, so you wait until something makes sense and hope Rittich continues to show he may be a legit #1.

If/when a deal is to be made to upgrade the crease, then you do so and if it means sending Smith down, there is no question that's what Tre will do. Though because of money its likely Smith goes the other way.

He's received more starts than he's deserved this season. You can argue that Rittich should have got the start yesterday backing on to the Christmas break. I get that they assumed a struggling Blues team would be a good opportunity to start your struggling backup but maybe in hindsight the team goes for the two points rather than try to get Smith going. It's pretty obvious at this point Smith is isn't going to get going as he's struggled for a calendar year now. Probably time to just keep starting Rittich as much as possible and save Smith for back to backs. Smith shouldn't start again until January 2nd in Detroit with Rittich starting the 3rd against Boston and his only other January start should be January 18th against the Wings again with Rittich getting the start the next night against the Oilers.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Of the 21 games Mike Smith has played in, we have given up 3+ goals in 13 of them and Smith has had a sub-.900 save percentage in 12. He's 2-8-1 with 1ND in those games.



Smith has sucked in four of every seven games he's played. His win-loss total is only as good as it is because the offence has bailed his ass out a number of times already.

Yes, and he has an 11-7-1 record. What exactly is going to suddenly change to make the situation worse?


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