[PGT] Blues 3 - Flames 1

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

The Flames score on average more than 3 goals per game and the Blues on average give up more than 3 goals against per game. If your backup goalie gives up 3 goals against the Blues you should win the game more often than not.



Smith was terrible but I don't think it if fair to give him most or all of the blame. This loss was a full team effort.

Here’s the thing

We had probably 8/10 beat scoring chances today.

Their goalie stopped 2.5 breakaways on JG.

Ours let in 2 pathetic goals

[Split98]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

The Flames score on average more than 3 goals per game and the Blues on average give up more than 3 goals against per game. If your backup goalie gives up 3 goals against the Blues you should win the game more often than not.



Smith was terrible but I don't think it if fair to give him most or all of the blame. This loss was a full team effort.

I think Allen and the Blues played pretty well as well. There were great chances in the 2nd that turns the game around very quickly that they defended well or saved.

Smith, conversely, is responsible for 2.

I agree it would have been much better to get a solid 60 out, and I'm sure that's what you'll hear in the locker room as well. But in the end, those 2 goals cost the game - and you expect your backup to have those.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The ONLY posters in this thread who have been definitive about anything are those who continue to insist that Mike Smith is worse than every other goalie in the NHL. I have never suggested that an available goalie would definitely be worse. I continue to argue that I doubt there are any available who would prove to be any better—it's a subtle but important difference. In other words, I don't believe the Flames would have won 11 games in front of just any goalie they could have acquired for free.

Well if we take the numbers mentioned from before from Smith and use them as a baseline:

9 good starts out of 21 (42.8% QS, .888 sv%, 2.99 gaa)
and UFA at end of season, there's a handful that I can see being available that I'd try over Smith.

Every other UFA goalie I checked is of course either crap or in a playoff spot and not likely being dealt at TDL.


Howard probably gets dangled, but is probably too much of an ask. Maybe Tre can do a conditional 1st, like he did with the Russell trade? The pipe dream acquisition. (70.8%, .922, 2.66)


McKenna is a weird wildcard. He doesn't start a whole lot so his QS would be ultra skewed(66.7%, .905, 3.75), but seems to be used in relief appearances of someone else's yank. Does pretty well for being on a laughingstock of a team.



They're gonna sell Kinkaid (42.8%, .903, 2.96) off at the TDL and resign themselves to the tank sooner or later, right? And want some goalie-suck insurance in case Cory Schneider magically goes godmode and ruins the tank? Here's hoping. Another somewhat lateral stat move from Smith... but he's on a pretty bad team.



McBackup may be available if the Hurricanes take another tumble in the standings. The East is looking even more ruthless than last season. (54.5%, .920, 2.36)
Likewise with Mrazek; stats wise more of a lateral move from Smith (35.7%, .897, 2.60) but could be worth a 'change of scenery' gamble at the right price.


The Isles are questionable right now and 5 pts out of a playoff spot in the ultra competitive East. I still don't see them selling Lehner (53.3%, .917, 2.54) off though unless they like Carolina take another tumble down the standlings.

[chummer]

nm

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames are "one of the top teams in the league"

yeah fourth place sounds good

14th place is 4 points back...can't be giving away points

couple more losses and the Flames are back in the bubble

They shouldn't let themselves get caught up in the top team narrative when there is half a season to be played. Gotta earn that title all year and not sit back.

Smith isn't nhl level this season whether it's preparation or ego getting in the way of the x's and o's of the position. He's Tim Thomas like with his theatric style but without making the actual saves and he's the weakest link on the team.

Right now the way he's playing if he wants the best for his team he should give Rittich (who has starter potential) HIS vote of confidence to the coach until he gets the basics of his position down again, in practice. Aka decline starts until he can perform at a professional level or it's a back to back situation..

[direwolf]

Tough to lose 3 straight heading into the break, but it is what it is. These games happen, especially right before Christmas with the team at home and likely all kinds of distractions going on with relatives/family. I was stuck at work today so I only saw the highlights, but it sounds like their heads weren't in it for the 1st, and of course Smith with another couple of stinkers. Hopefully the guys enjoy the holiday and then come out flying against the Jets on the 27th.

Lots of negativity in this thread, and I get it. It's never fun losing to a lesser team. But the Flames are top 5 in the NHL this year for a reason, and I'm not worried about them one bit. This is an excellent team.

Smith on the other hand...yikes. We need another backup goaltender, and soon.

Good news is the Ducks, Sharks, and Knights all lost today, so at least the damage is minimal and we're still in a good position heading into the break.

[killer_carlson]

1) first time back to the Dome in a few years. Pretty nostalgic to take my kid. I remember when my step dad took me to my first game at the Corral. And I certainly remember the dozens (or more) that he and I went to at the Dome.

2) I estimate I've been to at least 250 games at the Dome. Maybe it was the section we had seats in, but I never remember bathroom lineups like today.

3) team looked like it was ready for the holidays

4) smith was really beating himself up after that first goal. It was like he was seething out there.

5) we were right above the Flames bench. I was watching Neal on the bench. Frustrated in his facial expressions but no slamming of stick or pouting.

6) Hamonic seems to carry a big presence amongst his teammates.

7) what the hell did they do to the nacho cheese? This is an abomination. They have gone to the cheaper Rico's product. How have you put up with this?

8) I really liked all the Stampede posters on the walk to the LRT after the game. Neat.

9) does anyone bid on the autographed prints and stuff during the games? Each sheet I looked at was empty after the 2nd period. The minimum bids were really high

[oldschoolcalgary]

i thought Calgary might be able to get through the year with a platoon situation at worst and maybe a 60/40 split with Rittich getting the majority of starts...

but I now think Calgary should be exploring the market to see if they can secure a solid backup.

All players have bad games... but Smith is starting to feel eerily similar to Elliott... decent play most of the time but averages almost one bad goal a game.

Having a great season undone by poor goaltending would awful and a terrible waste because you simply don't know what will happen with the team next year...

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Including every goalie that has played a game this year Smith is 62nd in sv% but only 46th in GAA. This is a result of playing on a good team that on a lot of nights outscores their bad goaltending. Jon Gillies had better numbers on a significantly worse team last year. Logically speaking the flames would get an upgrade sending Smith down and calling Gillies up.

Jon Gillies has a 4.10 GAA and a 0.863 SP in 20 games this year, and you see him as a"logical" upgrade on Mike Smith? This idea is terrible.

You can believe what you want but there is absolutely no data or evidence that suggests that there isn't 61 other goalies on the league right now that would be an upgrade over Smith, a division and sometimes conference leading team with a 61st ranked goalie getting more than a backups share of starts is beyond unacceptable.

Oh, the hyperbole. You talk like Brad Treliving should lose his job over this.

[Jeff Lebowski]

During this break, why not do a player ranking of the roster similar to the offseason prospect ranking? It might only be top 10 but still would be interesting to see where people rank them.

A lot of really good players this time around!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Here’s the thing

We had probably 8/10 beat scoring chances today.

Their goalie stopped 2.5 breakaways on JG.

Ours let in 2 pathetic goals

Flames didn't play well...switch goalies and we win easy though

and the other guy has been nothing to write home about

[Brick]

Flames 5 on 5 play needs to improve. Depth scoring isn't working out the way it was planned.

A move or two before the trade deadline?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Beninho

It’s still a better gamble than thinking a 36 year old goalie can turn it around. A goalie who was never once elite and has been bad for a year and a half.

For the first half of last season, Mike Smith was widely considered the Flames' MVP – by, among others, numerous posters here on CP. He won several games that the team had no business being in. To say he's been bad for a year and a half is a plain, shameless lie.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

For the first half of last season, Mike Smith was widely considered the Flames' MVP – by, among others, numerous posters here on CP. He won several games that the team had no business being in. To say he's been bad for a year and a half is a plain, shameless lie.

Technically you are correct.

We are however approaching a full calendar year spread over 2 seasons. With no reasonable sign of return to quality.

There is a lot of hyperbole on here. Obviously he hasn’t given up a bad goal every game, but it would be easy to make an argument that he gives up s bad goal in more games than in which he does not. That itself may not even check out to be entirely true, but it very well may, and it would require a careful review to support the converse argument.

And this means you have a problem, and are looking at below replacement level goaltending, when you are splitting hairs between the goalie struggling all of the time or just most of the time.

[activeStick]

Didn't get to watch but saw the highlights. Staaaahp. Staaaahp with the reasoning for why Smith should still get starts...

[topfiverecords]

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Brick

Flames 5 on 5 play needs to improve. Depth scoring isn't working out the way it was planned.....

Agree. Goaltending aside, the great depth we were talking about earlier this season seems to have disapppared. Compared to last year, they have improved the top line, and the defence is playing better, but they’re basically still a 1.5 line team when it comes to goal scoring. I get it that poor goaltending makes the skaters less confident, but if they can’t get more from the second and third line, this team isn’t going to go very far in the playoffs, if they manage to get in.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Didn't get to watch but saw the highlights. Staaaahp. Staaaahp with the reasoning for why Smith should still get starts...

I’m sorry, but given David Rittich’s lack of professional hockey experience the Flames will continue to run a split between two goalies. That won’t change so long as the team keeps winning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Agree. Goaltending aside, the great depth we were talking about earlier this season seems to have disapppared. Compared to last year, they have improved the top line, and the defence is playing better, but they’re basically still a 1.5 line team when it comes to goal scoring. I get it that poor goaltending makes the skaters less confident, but if they can’t get more from the second and third line, this team isn’t going to go very far in the playoffs, if they manage to get in.

The Flames have nine forwards with more than ten points. That is right in line with the top teams in the West, and within range of the top three Eastern Conference teams. Scoring and offensive depth are not much of an issue for this team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Agree. Goaltending aside, the great depth we were talking about earlier this season seems to have disapppared. Compared to last year, they have improved the top line, and the defence is playing better, but they’re basically still a 1.5 line team when it comes to goal scoring. I get it that poor goaltending makes the skaters less confident, but if they can’t get more from the second and third line, this team isn’t going to go very far in the playoffs, if they manage to get in.

Lol. They're 1st in the Pacific, 2nd in the Conference, tied for 4th overall, and they just went toe to toe with the best team in hockey the other night while looking every bit Tampa's equal. (I don't view that game as a loss because shootouts are dumb. That was a tie, dammit.)

As Textcritic pointed out, offensive depth has not been a problem for this team. Honestly, the only guy I'm concerned about right now is James Neal. This team is already deadly, but just imagine how much more lethal they would be if he could finally get going.

We've also had some injury problems lately, including one of our best depth forwards (Frolik) missing a large chunk of games. Having him back will be a huge positive for this team going forward.