[PGT] They lost to the Coyotes

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I'd go all in on Tavares, any way possible.

A lot of dead space after the first line. Having two guys that can carry their own lines would be important and pay dividends. And more than that, two duos that you could lean on in Gaudreau-Monahan and Tkachuk-Tavares. Whole lot better than living and dying with the first line's output.

Can't go wrong with two top tier centers, it's worked out for the Pens.

That would be amazing, but no way does Tavares choose the Flames.

[zamler]

Why isn't Gully fired already, get the stank away from the team ASAP.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by dammage79

how about we re-visit this conversation next year. I want to see what Bennett and Janko can do under a better coach on the Flames.

Agreed. I also want to see what Bennett can do with better linemates. Let's not forget he was stuck playing with Brouwer on the 3rd line for much of this year. Then about 3/4 of the way into the season, Gully finally puts him on the top line with Johnny and Mony, and the kid is suddenly flying out there, using his speed and creating chances.

[4X4]

Gulutzan defenders, where are you? Isn't he about to turn a corner or something? Shouldn't the corsi be translating into wins? Where is everyone? Huh. Y'all left. Just like so many people were saying a year ago. And half a year ago. And a few months ago. And last month. And last week. And yesterday. And today.

[3rd liner]

Mike Smith's comment is bang-on- if the team didn't look so much better on paper this season would not be so excruciatingly frustrating- we wouldn't be expecting much. At the end of the day, with this roster, not making the playoffs cannot be seen but anything other than a failure. Were they Stanley cup contenders on paper? Probably not there yet- but second round playoffs was not unrealistic.
Here comes the part of the year where I am bitter towards any team going into the playoffs. FU sharks and ducks.

[Karl]

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

You probably know more about evaluating long term talent and development than me. I just go by what I see on the ice. And what I see in Bennett is a guy who has busted for a Fourth overall pick. Bad hockey sense, dumb untimely penalties, and no finish. Janko: soft. Not a great nose for the net. Soft defensively. That’s what I see and that is what the numbers bear out. Next year? Not sure. But I don’t see it.

Totally agree with your assessment for Bennett but totally disagree with you on Janko. 3rd line rookie center scoring 14 goals and driving to net on rushes is a win-win. I think Janko will be fine as a 3rd line center. If he turns out to be like a Bennett, then I'll be pissed.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The advanced metrics are what they are - just more information to digest.

What they are not is this predictive model that is often trotted out.

Flames under Hartley were horrible in most advanced metrics, and were pointed out as being 'unsustainable'. They kept that 'unsustainable' tag for 1.5 seasons (until the goalies crapped the bed, ran into some injuries, and had the second pairing defencemen suddenly regress horribly).

Flames under Gulutzan were advanced stat darlings and they were 'about to break out' all season long, but never did.

Just on one single team we have such polar opposites of what the advanced metrics were predicting. Winning under Hartley was unsustainable, but it was sustained long enough. Losing under Gulutzan was unsustainable, but was likewise sustained long enough.

The model is faulty. The analysis that people keep pushing doesn't have a confidence interval worth squat. It uses an indirect measure of possession (shots taken), and then goes on to explicitly state that it is indeed possession. It is not, and the confidence interval disproves any significant correlation IMO. Just on this one team you have results that are in complete disagreement.

Advanced metrics ARE useful, and they ARE interesting. The trouble with them is that they are incomplete, and you have nonsense stats like "PDO" that are 100% garbage (for heaven's sake, a good team with good offensive players, and with great defensive players and a strong goalie will have better than 100 AND IT IS NOT EXPECTED TO REGRESS TO THE MEAN in a season or even in the future - that's WHY they are a good team!).

Too many junk stats, too many inferences on metrics with too loose of causal relationships, and too many people shrieking about their predictive nature.

The Flames played for CORSI, and they were damn good at it all season. I hope Treliving has seen that strong CORSI should not be a system that you play for, but rather a natural by-product of having a good team playing well.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

How do you explain a very similar roster to Hartleys no quit attitude with additions of Tkachuk and Smith!
I’m not a saying Hartley should be coach but he showed that these players can work hard when the right buttons are pushed. So I can lay everything at the coach.... it’s the only major difference from the team we saw a couple years ago.

The team from a couple of years ago did not all have 10M in the bank and 3-4 years left and 18-20 M guaranteed. Almost all the important players have signed HUGE more money than they will be able to spend contracts over the last couple of years.

This is a very well paid group of individuals no matter how much or little they care or play.

Bennett/Tkachuk/ Jankowski are the basically the only important guys on the team that are in a position to get a monster contract if they perform well for the next year or 2.

[Duffalufagus]

Bennett has sucked (especially for a 4th overall pick) for three years. We’ve seen him play with everyone. Again, I feel like our fanbase overvalues the talent on this team. Hope I’m wrong and he lights it up next year. But I don’t know how one could look at his actual production and game and ground an objective argument that it is likely to happen.

[monkeyman]

I think Bennett has been managed horrible, and I think it's stunted his growth as a player. He's been shuffled around from line to line, from position to position, had multiple line-mates and was scratched early just as he started to play well. same with Lazar, I think he has more potential but when he's played well, instead of being rewarded, GG scratched him.
It's those kinds of decisions that worries me, losses are one thing, but these other things can have long lasting, negative effects on a team and on players.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I hope the Flames do win the lottery. It would put an exclamation point on their moves that led to this horrible season and it would take a good player out of the conference.

Flames should never have hired a coach that has not had any previous NHL success. They should have replaced him mid-season when it was clear to everyone but Treliving that it wasn't working.

They will probably hire a green coach next or get one that has been abandoned off the scrap heap. That is the Flames way. You have to do things a certain way to wind up in the bottom half of the league year after year.

Totally agree with the quoted. BT should have done something while there was still time. If he had brought in a coach in the short term and saw a better or worse result it would have given him more perspective on what changes are needed. At the very least if it didn't work out that coach could have been let go.

Makes ,me wonder if his hands are tied and a new coach required/s approval.

If the Flames went all in they missed the boat not going for an experienced coach.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Gulutzan defenders, where are you? Isn't he about to turn a corner or something? Shouldn't the corsi be translating into wins? Where is everyone? Huh. Y'all left. Just like so many people were saying a year ago. And half a year ago. And a few months ago. And last month. And last week. And yesterday. And today.

Some are already retroactively shifting their opinions. They never explicitly stated they should keep the coach after all. The months and months of defending him was just hypothetical.

[zamler]

If Gully is back next season I can see fans turning away in droves. No way are we going tolerate another year of 50/50 accomplish nothing hockey.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

https://twitter.com/user/status/975961263661490176

https://twitter.com/user/status/975961397296115713

Boy this was an exact replica of the 09/10 Flames. Giant trade for Bouwmeester, lots of hope and excitement going into it. They fall completely flat and miss the dance.

So basically Smith is saying this team is a lot better than they showed this season. I think that quote is very telling.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by shadowlord

I might be over-paraphrasing, but essentially yes. The players wanted to "get one back on the next shift", but GG said they ended up making sloppy mistakes that led to the next goals. If they had stuck to the system, they had time left to tie the game.

I was listening to the pregame show on the drive home from work about 7pm to 730pm (Mountain Time) today. I remember they also interviewed Gio who said a similar thing.

It should be on their archives.

Aka the team quit on their coach. It’s amazing it took almost 2 seasons for this to happen!

[dammage79]

And you can tell Gully's feeling the burn too. Short with the media on most days, and recently he's just trying to say whatever to not stir up a hornet's nest. On a very human level I feel for the man. I honestly believe he's in way too deep.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Definitely the worst Flames season I can remember. Rock bottom in terms of the combination of failure to compete, underachieving and dreadfully boring hockey.

I feel for you season ticket holders.

[3rd liner]

It's been said already by many, but NO bargain-basement hires for a new coach please. Get a proven winner. These off-the-radar hires (be they coaches or players- remember Roman Cervenka? Me neither....) rarely work out. The fan base deserves it after the GG experiment. Not an NHL coach.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by zamler

If Gully is back next season I can see fans turning away in droves. No way are we going tolerate another year of 50/50 accomplish nothing hockey.

Better not be some rookie coach next year. Time to spend some money and get one with a proven track record. If Quenneville becomes available you back up the brinks truck.