[Trade] Canucks trade Jared McCann, 2nd, 4th to Panthers for Erik Gudbranson + 5th

[DJones]

Originally Posted by saillias

It's not a question of believe. He is simply sharing data. That is his job at TSN. Not "believing" the data is like not believing the Earth is round.

You can take Yost's analysis with a grain of salt if you like.... and hey so does Benning.

"This is just lunacy"

If he was just showing the stats impartially maybe. But when you put that type of inflection on the stats, that is where you lose credibility.

Anyone whose familiar with him saying he's a solid mean top 4 guy.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by blankall

With Sedin, Sutter, and Horvat ahead of him, perhaps McCann just felt there wasn't a future for him there? McCann would definitely be in direct competition with Sutter and Horvat for ice time and unlikely to surpass either on the depth chart.

Vancouver seems to have a history of young centres wanting out...well maybe just McCann and Hodgson. That still quite a bit. In the course of 4 years to give up 2 recent first round picks, both centres with top 6 upside.

Maybe the Sedins, despite their nice guy persona, are competitive A-holes, who make it clear that they are the top dogs and no one else is getting a chance. Maybe management is just not flexible enough about what playing styles they allow on the team. Although that seems weird, as they've allowed players like Bartschi to do whatever they want.

Something just seems very strange about this trade.

Sutter played wing with the Sedins and that is the plan moving forward as of now. McCann definitely struggled late last season with the physicality of the NHL but the rest of his game looked impressive to me. Sounds like he has worked hard on his strength this off season so it may not be as much of an issue.

Not a bad trade but the 2nd makes it a little tough to swallow. Gudbranson is not terrible by any means but he's a bottom half guy.

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I think it's fair trade. Flames equivalent would be Jankowski, 2nd, 4th for an established #4. Not a crazy thought.

Or you could just sign a #4 d man during free agency for fairly cheap and not give up assets. Gudbranson has basically topped out as a #4, whereas, someone like Hamilton still has the potential to be a #2.

Terrible, terrible move by the Canucks. How long until Benning is fired?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'd like to think Treliving would have been smart enough not to take Senyshyn. So this theory only holds owing to the stupidity of Don Sweeney. If he takes Kyle Connor with that pick, that changes everything. I think a #15 has more value than McCann... but then, so does Hamilton have more value than Gudbranson. And it's not particularly close.

Connor and Barzal also probably shouldn't have been available at our pick. Ranked well above in every publication.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Is that the case? Connor dropped a bit, IIRC (and obviously should not have done so) but I remember Barzal being ranked 10-15.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Or you could just sign a #4 d man during free agency for fairly cheap and not give up assets. Gudbranson has basically topped out as a #4, whereas, someone like Hamilton still has the potential to be a #2.

Terrible, terrible move by the Canucks. How long until Benning is fired?

What #4s are available in UFA that won't get overpaid? Plus he's a rightie, every team seems to be looking for them. Third pair guy like Kevan Miller had to be signed to a 4 year deal worth 10 mill recently. Think about that.

Gudbransson is a steady dman. Ask him to cover the likes of Tavares is not fair, punthers should've had their other hyped dman on him.

Don't forget you have to give to get. Benning has made questionable moves, this is not one of them. It's a fair trade.

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

What #4s are available in UFA that won't get overpaid? Plus he's a rightie, every team seems to be looking for them. Third pair guy like Kevan Miller had to be signed to a 4 year deal worth 10 mill recently. Think about that.

Gudbransson is a steady dman. Ask him to cover the likes of Tavares is not fair, punthers should've had their other hyped dman on him.

Don't forget you have to give to get. Benning has made questionable moves, this is not one of them. It's a fair trade.

Comparable #4 defensemen that are UFAs and can be required without moving assets for a decent price:

Brian Campbell
Roman Polak
Jason Demers
John-Michael Liles
Luke Schenn
David Schlemko
Jordie Benn
Jakup Nakladal
Justin Falk

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Is that the case? Connor dropped a bit, IIRC (and obviously should not have done so) but I remember Barzal being ranked 10-15.

both were in that range, basically take away what the Bruins did from 13-15, if Connor/Barzal go there they were in their range

its Boston going way off board that pushed them back

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Comparable #4 defensemen that are UFAs and can be required without moving assets for a decent price:

Brian Campbell
Roman Polak
Jason Demers
John-Michael Liles
Luke Schenn
David Schlemko
Jordie Benn
Jakup Nakladal
Justin Falk

Bolded are 3rd pairing dman. A clear level or two below Gudbransson. Also, how can they get Nakladal for free?

Demers, Polak Campbell will have competition and they woudn't be fairly "cheap". Even then Campbell is getting up there.

It's same as what some are saying; get Reimer or free cuz he's free and not pay for better options via trade.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The value is not far off to what we paid for Hamilton.

Imagine if we had picked up Gudbranson instead of Dougie.

It's a bad trade for the Canucks.

ehh, I see the players we could have taken at 15 last year, especially Kyle Connor and Matt Barzal, having significantly more value than McCann. It's not the same price we paid.

edit: I see that this was brought up already, but still, they maybe shouldn't have been there but they were. We paid a higher price, granted we did get a much better piece back.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Comparable #4 defensemen that are UFAs and can be required without moving assets for a decent price:

Brian Campbell
Roman Polak
Jason Demers
John-Michael Liles
Luke Schenn
David Schlemko
Jordie Benn
Jakup Nakladal
Justin Falk

most of those aren't #4 defensemen at all.

EDIT: beaten by the chief.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by devo22

most of those aren't #4 defensemen at all.

Or Comparable in role to Gudbranson.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by DJones

"This is just lunacy"

If he was just showing the stats impartially maybe. But when you put that type of inflection on the stats, that is where you lose credibility.

Anyone whose familiar with him saying he's a solid mean top 4 guy.

What he is trying to show is that he may not be quite as solid of a top 4 guy as you conclude. The comparables aren't necessarily terrible. I think they are all NHLers, but perhaps closer to bottom-middle pair.

You can disagree, but what are your comparables, based on the stats?

[Major Happy]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Bolded are 3rd pairing dman. A clear level or two below Gudbransson. Also, how can they get Nakladal for free?

Demers, Polak Campbell will have competition and they woudn't be fairly "cheap". Even then Campbell is getting up there.

It's same as what some are saying; get Reimer or free cuz he's free and not pay for better options via trade.

He's a UFA, no?

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Major Happy

He's a UFA, no?

You're right. For whatever reason I was thinking of Jokipakka when I wrote that. My bad.

[Vinny01]

I think a lot of the hate on Vacouver stems from the fact they make moves that make them older when the fans are asking for a rebuild. Due to poor prospect depth upon taking the job Benning has tried to patch holes typically using a 2nd round pick as the main tool.

I am going to try and view it with his logic.

He makes the deal he has to make with Kesler. He had very limited trade options due to a NMC. He gets Bonino, McCann and Sbisa. He is able to bring in a worse yet cheaper 2nd line C option in Bonino who played well for the Ducks the year before. Sbisa was a former first rounder who Benning wants to plug into the top 4. McCann gives the Canucks a second first round pick for the second straight draft. Canucks also get a 3rd rounder in the deal

He then Flips Garrison for a 2nd. Moves a 30 year old top 4 D making $4.6 for several more years on his contract. Sbisa will plug into that spot and Vancouver adds another pick in their rebuild. Benning then trades the 2nd he gets for Garrison and the 3rd he got in the Kelser deal for Vey and Dorsett. These 2 former med hat Tigers join new goalie Willie to turn Vancouver around quick.
At the trade deadline Vancouver on a playoff spot moves their 2nd rounder for Sven Baertschi who we all know well.
The next summer Vancouver moves on from Kevin Bieksa getting a 2nd for him in 2016. That 2nd is burning a hole in Jim's pocket and he trades that pick, Clendenning (a described NHL Dman who he gave up Forsling for who was a promising young Dman prospect coming off a great world juniors) and Bonino for Brandon Sutter. Sutter is a 27 year old career 3rd line C who gets an immediate 5 year deal north of $4M Benning sees him as a long term fit over Bonino. Canuck fans are perplexed as they love Horvat who had a bit of a coming out party in his first year in the NHL.

This season is a complete write off for Vancouver and they enter the deadline with some pending UFA's in Hamhuis and Vrbata. He gets nothing for either player and the Canucks fall to bottom 3 in the league. The one move he does make at the deadline is trade 2013 first round pick Shinkaruk for 2011 second round pick Granlund. For the second time in a year he trades a younger asset to Calgary for an older one (still young though)

They drop back 2 spots in the draft and have a top 5 pick. Their youth looks okay but still lacking. They have Horvat, Virtanen, McCann, Baertschi, Hutton as their NHLers under 24. Boeser and Demko are their top prospects out of the NHL. This team needs help everywhere but desperately on the blueline. He decided to send the 33rd pick and recent first rounder McCann for Gudbransen who is nearly 25 but is a big body right shot.

The issue Jim is dealing with I think is ownership related. Similar to Feaster he is trying to get younger by winning now. Feaster however traded 4th/5th picks for guys like Russell, Colborne, and Galliardi. Jim is giving up former 1st rounders ()who are trending well) and 2nds for guys that seem to fall out of favor in other locations. This rebuild on the fly is going to hurt Cancuks fans but I truly think Jim is trying to retool upon direction from Ownership

[northcrunk]

Is Jim Benning playing GM mode in NHL 14? He needs some updated rosters I think.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I think it's fair trade. Flames equivalent would be Jankowski, 2nd, 4th for an established #4. Not a crazy thought.

Here's the thing... I don't consider Jankowski = McCann (at present) nor do I consider Gudbranson to be a good #4.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Is that the case? Connor dropped a bit, IIRC (and obviously should not have done so) but I remember Barzal being ranked 10-15.

I also seem to remember we figured Connor to be gone by 13 at the latest, and collectively we were hoping to get Barzal at 15.

Having both drop was a surprise, but ya, that was due to Boston going a little off the board. I still believe taking the D they did was kind of a "screw you" to Edmonton as Chiarelli really didn't look happy making that deal with the Islanders. I figure they had Zboril pegged, with the Islanders deal set up as a "just-in-case".

All worked out as far as I was concerned...

[MissTeeks]

Nice choice of picture:

Strombone
Strombone – ‏@strombone1

Will always remember the great chemistry we shared on the ice together. Gonna miss you buddy @Guddy44