Train derailed in Bonnybrook

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by Redliner

In the meantime, Nenshi really should stop spouting off in the media about things he doesn't fully understand. I get that he's probably exhausted and frustrated and he's done an excellent job of handling this crisis so far, but a lot of the stuff he said in his conference this morning simply isn't true. Yes, CP has laid off a lot of people, but it hasn't had any effect on their ability to comply with federal regulations. Second, (and this is what really pisses me off) it's not just "his" guys who are out there "risking their lives." He makes it sound like CP is just standing back with their hands in their pockets while the city saves the day. I know people who have been out of bed since the call first came in dealing with this, and I guarantee you it's not city crews who are out stringing cables between those railcars on the bridge or transloading the product. As for the issue of regulation - if you consider the number of communities our railways pass through and the myriad different restrictions they would be subject to if municipal regulations applied to them, it would be a miracle if they could ever turn a wheel. It's a damn good thing they are federally regulated, and despite the recent rash of issues at CP, rail remains by far the safest method of transportation so they must be doing something right.

He also mentioned the CP guys, practically in the same breath.

Also, if it is true that CP hasn't done a bridge inspection since saturday, when the Bow was at its peak, I wouldn't be so quick to come to CP's defense.

You are right about a patch work level of regulation being problematic for CP to work with, but I also think that a community of 1+ million people should have the ability to regulate this private business within its borders.

[polak]

CP is not in risk of being shutdown. It never will be.

They are invincible and they know it. The Federal government mandates the minimum inspection levels. Congrads to CP. Enjoy the fruits of your minimum required effort. As someone who worked in transport directly with CP on a nearly daily basis, I am in no way shocked or surprised that this happened on their watch. CP is a joke.

[DoubleK]

For Nenshi to imply that the City's infrastructure is in better shape than any railway's is absolute nonsense.

He really needs to be reigned in on this issue. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

For Nenshi to imply that the City's infrastructure is in better shape than any railway's is absolute nonsense.

He really needs to be reigned in on this issue. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

In what way is our infrastructure currently worse than a bridge which is collapsing into the river?

[Nehkara]

I'm totally cool with him spouting off. He has been working around the clock for a week to try and get this city back on its feet and then something like this happens which cripples the city for another day. Completely out of the city's control.

Let him be frustrated, I would be too. So would all of you.

[surferguy]

CTV Calgary ‏@CTVCalgary 17m Fire Chief says CP rail bridge has basically collapsed/dropped to the water level... Further update from CP directly at 3:45pm. #YYC

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Also my close cousin has been with CP for 20 years and the last time he spoke to me about the changes of the company since that jackass American took over he was almost in tears. They started to cut corners and treat them like crap. They've been laying off safety guys and not hiring replacements..

That sounds consistent from what I've heard from people there too. It took 6 hours for someone from the City (perhaps the Mayor himself) to get a response from someone at the CP? Hey Hunter - next time your bridge threatens to put 5 petroleum cars into the river and nuke Deerfoot, maybe pickup the phone? Hell, the Mayor could have driven to Gulf Canada quicker than that...

CP's official take that they had someone inspecting the bridge is probably true. What I would ask is - how many years of experience that person have? Hunter's purge has typically meant those grey hairs close to retirement have been bridged/ejected. Those that remain may be relatively new / and or overworked, especially in Engineering Services. Not a good combination with respect to safety.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I'm totally cool with him spouting off. He has been working around the clock for a week to try and get this city back on its feet and then something like this happens which cripples the city for another day. Completely out of the city's control.

Let him be frustrated, I would be too. So would all of you.

No dude, don't you see?

Nenshi was the guy who totally thought it was a good idea to park 400000 lbs of petroleum on a rickety bridge over floodwaters for a week and only check up on it twice.

And I mean, you'd have to have some kind of engineering degree to understand why that's a good idea after all.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Redliner

If you're talking about the rail bridge that crosses Deerfoot in north of Glenmore and before the Calf Robe Bridge, it's not even owned by CP. That's CN's bridge that allows them to come down into the industrial park, and I'm no bridge inspector but as far as I know it's just fine. Modern railway bridges (and highway bridges) are often made of unpainted steel that oxidizes to a rusty colour, but the presence of surface rust does not at all mean that the bridge is in disrepair....

Anytime a business you work for or know people who work for is coloured in the media in a negative light its understandable to be upset.

However you have to admit that with the recent inter-company issues that CP has gone through now hiring hack and slash HH to run the business that its likely redundancies were cut. And if anything was being done above and beyond minimum standards they were likely cut, especially if its true the bridge was last inspected 5 days ago with the situation going on in Calgary at the moment.

I dont disagree Nensh needs to tone it down a bit but there is no problem with him saying we cant inspect the bridge so its not up to "our" standards. That is a perfectly viable statement to make since its likely they arent inspected to the same standard.

I didnt hear or read exactly what Nensh said but its not being reported in the media as he mentioned both sides, I have to wonder who exactly at the City is an expert in train derailments and would be "fixing" it. My only guess is he means firefighters in case the thing blows.

[jammies]

What is this, the Old West? We shouldn't have to deal with dastardly rail barons holding the townsfolk hostage.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Redliner

If you're talking about the rail bridge that crosses Deerfoot in north of Glenmore and before the Calf Robe Bridge, it's not even owned by CP. That's CN's bridge that allows them to come down into the industrial park, and I'm no bridge inspector but as far as I know it's just fine. Modern railway bridges (and highway bridges) are often made of unpainted steel that oxidizes to a rusty colour, but the presence of surface rust does not at all mean that the bridge is in disrepair.

Yes, my intention was simply to imply that it is not a very aesthetic structure; I know nothing about rail bridges so I am in no place to comment on its structural integrity.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by Redliner

In the meantime, Nenshi really should stop spouting off in the media about things he doesn't fully understand. I get that he's probably exhausted and frustrated and he's done an excellent job of handling this crisis so far, but a lot of the stuff he said in his conference this morning simply isn't true. Yes, CP has laid off a lot of people, but it hasn't had any effect on their ability to comply with federal regulations. Second, (and this is what really pisses me off) it's not just "his" guys who are out there "risking their lives." He makes it sound like CP is just standing back with their hands in their pockets while the city saves the day. I know people who have been out of bed since the call first came in dealing with this, and I guarantee you it's not city crews who are out stringing cables between those railcars on the bridge or transloading the product. As for the issue of regulation - if you consider the number of communities our railways pass through and the myriad different restrictions they would be subject to if municipal regulations applied to them, it would be a miracle if they could ever turn a wheel. It's a damn good thing they are federally regulated, and despite the recent rash of issues at CP, rail remains by far the safest method of transportation so they must be doing something right.

Although he probably is tired, he does have a bit of a point. The city just underwent a massive flood event. Why has this bridge only undergone one inspection in that time? Understaffed, incorrect initial evaluation, not giving a rats ass? Are there any more that we should be worried about?

And sure, CP will be the ones getting in there to yank the stuff out. The point is we shouldn't have to divert already strained resources to keep the area safe, especially if there is a chance that CP dropped the ball and all of this could have been avoided.

Originally Posted by DoubleK

For Nenshi to imply that the City's infrastructure is in better shape than any railway's is absolute nonsense.

Kinda hard to say this right now, considering the railway almost dunked some cars into the river, isn't it?

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Kerplunk

Kinda hard to say this right now, considering the railway almost dunked some cars into the river, isn't it?

There are several City-owned, maintained and inspected bridge structures that suffered damage during the flood.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

There are several City-owned, maintained and inspected bridge structures that suffered damage during the flood.

Yes but those bridges were either closed or restricted use. They didn't keep allowing use of them as per the CP bridge, thus causing the collapse.

[PsYcNeT]

I think DoubleK got lost when he was trying to find the Calgary Sun Comments section.

They're over that way dude, beside the crying eagles and Dave Rutherford jock-straps.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

For Nenshi to imply that the City's infrastructure is in better shape than any railway's is absolute nonsense.

The City knows exactly what kind of shape its infrastructure is in. It has been inspected rigorously throughout the flood. The City reiterated this today - it is safe.

Remember that even as of today and yesterday, the Bow flow rate is still at three times the normal rate. Also, as river levels drop, erosion of riverbanks tends to get worse.


Flow Rates below the confluence of the Bow and Elbow Rivers (cubic meters per second):
Saturday 2200
Sunday 1400
Monday 1000
Tuesday 780
Wednesday 700

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

There are several City-owned, maintained and inspected bridge structures that suffered damage during the flood.

And that's why the city didn't put a giant train with hazardous chemicals on them.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Is there an opportunity for a class action lawsuit against CP, for our time they wasted today? I only considered this after the CP apologists started offering their wisdom.

[Violator]

Cp has been outsourcing work to places like a&b railway services and caltrax for for a couple years if not longer

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Apparently Hunter is not at his ranch today, and is having a little chat with Nenshi at the Emergency Ops Center re this tweet:



Mayor Nenshi and CP CEO Hunter Harrison Harrison sitting at picnic table at the Emergency Operations Centre. Looks informal. Probably isn't.