Rumble in the Caledonia Jungle.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Read into it what you want, what I said is the truth.

You know, just because you say something is true over and over doesn't make it true. Some people have brought up other protests in this thread that you've conveniently ignored so you can repeat the absurd "the cops let the indians do whatever they want" stance. Why don't you address that trucker thing in Ontario, or the packing-plant disturbance in Brooks? The cops didn't go in there swinging clubs and arresting people in those instances. Why not? Is it because the truckers were white? Is it because the people in Brooks were all sorts of colors? Or could it be some other reason?

You are always such a law-and-order type so I'm kinda surprised that you would accuse the OPP of such blatant corruption and be so critical of how they do things.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I didn't have to put words in your mouth.

is give every single one of them 1 million dollars and cancel any future claims to rights land or what ever and get rid of the reservation system

Nowhere in there do you mention making a deal or negotiating. Give them money and cancel any rights to anything else --that is all you said.

I can perfectly understand why you are trying to back off this ridiculous idea of yours, but don't whine when someone points out how silly it was.

I am not backing off any claim. The current system DOES NOT work for Natives. Something else has to be done. Instead of isolating them on reservations where there are no jobs and hardly any infrastructure integrate them into society, allow them to own their own land and let them do as they wish. As it works now there are to many chiefs and not enough indians. Money gets sent to these band members but very little is left at the end of the day for the common folk.

Did my my remarks sound like we should just go in there and force them to do this? Well I would have to say maybe, but that was not what I was suggesting. Forcing any aggreement on another group will only result in its failure. The treaties that have been signed are WAY out of date and need to be renegotiated to better incorporate the new times. This can be done by working with the Natives.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

.
Unless you are condoning violent action taken against the protesters. You aren't, are you?

No, of course not, I guess more or less the situation makes me angry in terms of the double standard aspect of it all.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The current system DOES NOT work for Natives. Something else has to be done.

Hey I'm with you. The system doesn't appear to be working so something has to change. A lot of people have the attitude(and I assumed incorrectly that you were one of them) that "we" should just cut "them" off. Bribe them, pay them off, even just turn off the taps. That's what I was griping about.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Hey I'm with you. The system doesn't appear to be working so something has to change. A lot of people have the attitude(and I assumed incorrectly that you were one of them) that "we" should just cut "them" off. Bribe them, pay them off, even just turn off the taps. That's what I was griping about.

Fair enough.

[White Doors]

You are always such a law-and-order type so I'm kinda surprised that you would accuse the OPP of such blatant corruption and be so critical of how they do things.

I am? well thanks for the insight?

All I'm saying is that there is a double standard with law and order when it comes to natives. This is detrimental to the natives themselves.
And where did I say anythign about police being corrupt??

[RougeUnderoos]

Maybe if you would address the question of why the police don't always crack down on other protests not involving natives, you might make a point. As it is though, you are like a kid with his hands over his hears.

Re: corruption -- I'd say that a blanket policy to treat one group of people better than another group is corruption.

[White Doors]

Re: corruption -- I'd say that a blanket policy to treat one group of people better than another group is corruption

No, that's just politics.

I do see about the farmers protests and whatnot, but they are a inconvenience at most. I don't see them breakign the law flagrantly for weeks on end and the police sitting idly by.

Do you?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by White Doors

No, that's just politics.

I do see about the farmers protests and whatnot, but they are a inconvenience at most. I don't see them breakign the law flagrantly for weeks on end and the police sitting idly by.

Do you?

Those people out in West Van were ignoring injunctions and whatnots for something like 5 weeks before the police moved in yesterday and had a nice chat before they finally carted them off. It must be because they are white.

Anyhow, I did one google search and came up with this...

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/prgrm/...now/10_e.shtml

Aboriginal people come into conflict with the law disproportionately to their representation in the general population. While representing 2.7 per cent of Canada's population, self-identified Aboriginal people represent approximately 17 per cent of all admissions to federal institutions.

Adult Aboriginal people are incarcerated more than six times the national rate. In Saskatchewan, the adult Aboriginal incarceration rate is over 1,600 per 100,000, compared to 48 per 100,000 for adult non-Aboriginals. The number of Aboriginal offenders is expected to rise dramatically over the next decade due to the high rate of the Aboriginal youth population. Furthermore, according to data from the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics Homicide Survey, approximately fifteen per cent of all homicides victims in a given year were Aboriginal.


Apparently someone missed a memo somewhere along the line. If there was a (inexplicable) political decision to ignore aboriginals commiting crimes, they aren't doing a very good job of it. That's politicians though, ain't it? They never do what they say they are going to.

[White Doors]

Aboriginal people come into conflict with the law disproportionately to their representation in the general population. While representing 2.7 per cent of Canada's population, self-identified Aboriginal people represent approximately 17 per cent of all admissions to federal institutions.

Adult Aboriginal people are incarcerated more than six times the national rate. In Saskatchewan, the adult Aboriginal incarceration rate is over 1,600 per 100,000, compared to 48 per 100,000 for adult non-Aboriginals. The number of Aboriginal offenders is expected to rise dramatically over the next decade due to the high rate of the Aboriginal youth population. Furthermore, according to data from the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics Homicide Survey, approximately fifteen per cent of all homicides victims in a given year were Aboriginal.

What was your point again? You don't think that individual crime statistics would match up against this?

You can see the difference between individual crimes and illegal protests can't you?

[Superflyer]

If this went to the Supreme Court and was thrown out how can they set up a blockade like this and get away with it is my question.
If I had a squable with my neighbor and I said that acualy your front yard belongs to me and we go to court to dispute it. After that I lose I cannot block the street off in protest.
That is just the way it is. You lose, to bad so sad but if 3 courts say you are wrong, maybe, just maybe you are. Deal with it!!!!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by White Doors

What was your point again? You don't think that individual crime statistics would match up against this?

You can see the difference between individual crimes and illegal protests can't you?

You didn't get the point? That's funny, I thought it was pretty straightforward. You believe that there is a blanket policy to treat one group of people better than another (remember, you said it's "politics") so I just demonstrated that the numbers don't really reflect that.

Unless of course you just meant it in a vague and complicated "well, for protests it's different but not for everything else" sort of a way then I guess that'll have to do.

Anyhow, what about that Vancouver thing?

[chris lindberg]

I've heard something like 80% of prison inmates in Alberta or Saskatchawan were Native. Is this number correct?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by chris lindberg

I've heard something like 80% of prison inmates in Alberta or Saskatchawan were Native. Is this number correct?

Looks like the number is 34% of the Alberta prison population

http://www.ablf.ca/FeaturesrelatedtoLiteracy/

Still very disproportionate.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Well it looks like the Judge wants to know why his orders have not been enforced.

Its a good question.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...caledonia.html

[jolinar of malkshor]

A building contractor is undergoing tests in hospital to look for brain damage after he was clubbed on the head by a First Nations protester, the man's brother said

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/256973

Looks like they are at it again only getting more violent. When will the government stop these criminals from inciting and commiting acts of violance.

[TibHockeyPlayer]

Go Natives!

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by TibHockeyPlayer

Go Natives!

Go natives???? They bashed a guys head in and almost killed him. A guy who was just building a house for his daughter. Are you for real?