Conservatives take one seat NDP take another

[jolinar of malkshor]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/st...tions0917.html


The loss of that riding by the Libs to the NDP is not going to be good for old Dion. Looks like they are going to be shut out.

[Slava]

The NDP winning a seat in PQ has to be an enormous surprise though. IIRC this has only happened one other time, and this was also during a byelection.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

The NDP winning a seat in PQ has to be an enormous surprise though. IIRC this has only happened one other time, and this was also during a byelection.

And it happens in the ridding where Dion hand picked the lib. I wonder what would have happened if Truedue actually would have ran in it like he wanted.

I am also suprised that the Conservatives took a seat from the PQ aswell./

[killer_carlson]

Im not surprised the Tories took a seat. They ran the former mayor of the riding and only lost by 3000 votes last time. Score one for the good guys.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Im not surprised the Tories took a seat. They ran the former mayor of the riding and only lost by 3000 votes last time. Score one for the good guys.

yes the NDP did get one

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yes the NDP did get one

Haha...that was funny....but on a serious note....anything is better than the liberals under the leadership of Dion.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

And it happens in the ridding where Dion hand picked the lib. I wonder what would have happened if Truedue actually would have ran in it like he wanted.

I am also suprised that the Conservatives took a seat from the PQ aswell./

It think a little bald man running and Trudeau v2 running would have made the race quite a bitt different IMO.

There was likely a reason Trudeau v2 didnt run, and that was probably due to advance polling months ago combined with the NDP's candidate.

I love how yesterday CBC had on Jean Laperriere (sp?) who used to hold that riding but is now a Liberal analyst dogging who after a whole 2 years the Conservatives still dont have any groundpounders in Quebec. Well guess what Jean, you dont need your own groundpounders if you pay the ADQ to do the groundpounding for you.

Look for Harper to try to force an election, winning a seat by a descent margin and only losing one other by less than 1500 votes might be just what the Conservatives need. Ignore downtown Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver and save your money for the burbs. If he could somehow take the lead on exiting Afghanistan (I know its a low ball move to politicize the conflict over there but thats what politics is, low balling). Then he would be primed for more seats in QC - maybe enough for a majority.

Its too bad we dont know what the candidates for US President would be. For the Reps if its anyone other than Guliani then they will lose so might as well get out in front by announcing the Afghan withdrawl now. If Guliani wins then it becomes more politically dicey to formerlly announce withdrawl rather than putting it to a vote.

Also I would really like to see what Dion would look like durring the debate.

MYK

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by The President

This is not exactly because of Layton that NDP won Outremont. It was because of the candidate,Thomas Mulcair. He worked hard to win this seat and I don't think it's the beginning of a NDP wave in Quebec though.

I think the quicker the Liberals and the Bloc are eliminated from Quebec as alternatives Federally the better off everyone is. The conservatives and NDP can focus on ideas as opposed to Liberal posturing. Compare Trudeau with Paul Martin and there's no discernable ideology consistant to both of them other than they both would do ANYTHING to get elected to the extreme detrement to everyone involved. The Bloc clearly don't have the best interests for Quebec or the country in mind, they are a one issues, one province, fringe party. Their continuing existance blurs any productive future within Canada Quebec has. As long as they are popular all Quebec will be good for Nationally is a dumping ground for equalization payments.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by The President

The Tories progress in Quebec and they're now a serious opponent to Bloc
Quebecois. Libs are nearly off the map.

The distortion that makes it appear that the Liberals are off the map is caused by the electoral system. Don't kid yourself, there are still a lot of Liberal supporters in Quebec, and they could still win seats if the BQ and CPC split the vote.

A couple of these byelection wins were as a result of the strong individual candidates. It is always interesting to see how that carries into a general election; the focus seems to shift then to the partisan policies and not so much on the individual.

[llama64]

Anyone else find it disturbing that the Conservatives are referred to as the "Tories"? The Tories are dead unfortunately. They died when the PC's defected to the Reform party.

Still, it is interesting to see the Conservatives gain in Quebec. But it's still saddening to watch the Bloq gain as well.

The Liberals need to clean house completely. No more hold overs from the Chretien regime. Dion makes then entire party look like a bunch of buffoons with absolutely no connection to the people of Canada. If the Conservatives hold that position, you know something is wrong in Ottawa :P

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by llama64

Anyone else find it disturbing that the Conservatives are referred to as the "Tories"? The Tories are dead unfortunately. They died when the PC's defected to the Reform party.

Still, it is interesting to see the Conservatives gain in Quebec. But it's still saddening to watch the Bloq gain as well.

The Liberals need to clean house completely. No more hold overs from the Chretien regime. Dion makes then entire party look like a bunch of buffoons with absolutely no connection to the people of Canada. If the Conservatives hold that position, you know something is wrong in Ottawa :P

Why should you be disturbed? You're obviously not a Conservative supporter. Them calling themselves Tories is "disturbing"? Wow such strong language for such a minor detail.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by llama64

Anyone else find it disturbing that the Conservatives are referred to as the "Tories"? The Tories are dead unfortunately. They died when the PC's defected to the Reform party.

I guess my thought is that it is the Reform party that is the dead one. The Reformers split from the PC party, and then the two parties re-joined forces. To me the only difference is the new Conservative party has more of a western voice. So I guess I would have to say that part doesn't bother me.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by llama64

Anyone else find it disturbing that the Conservatives are referred to as the "Tories"? The Tories are dead unfortunately. They died when the PC's defected to the Reform party.

Still, it is interesting to see the Conservatives gain in Quebec. But it's still saddening to watch the Bloq gain as well.

The Liberals need to clean house completely. No more hold overs from the Chretien regime. Dion makes then entire party look like a bunch of buffoons with absolutely no connection to the people of Canada. If the Conservatives hold that position, you know something is wrong in Ottawa :P

I kind of find it disturbing, if only because the phrase "Tories" tends to make one think of the old elitist, nepotistic and establishment-based Conservative party of years past, in essence, the conservative version of the Liberal party... rather than a dynamic, progressive, libertarian, yet right of centre group of pragmatists that they claim to be now.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I guess my thought is that it is the Reform party that is the dead one. The Reformers split from the PC party, and then the two parties re-joined forces. To me the only difference is the new Conservative party has more of a western voice. So I guess I would have to say that part doesn't bother me.

How does the party have more of a western voice now? Because of the continual pandering to Quebec? The dismantling of the wheat board? Maybe its the flip-flop on bilingualism over the past few years or the appointment of non-elected (in any house) cabinet ministers?

No, at the end of the day the only reason that this party has more of a western voice is because they have elected members on the government side from here. The same western voice could've been accomplished by electing a few Liberals over the past decade!

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Why should you be disturbed? You're obviously not a Conservative supporter. Them calling themselves Tories is "disturbing"? Wow such strong language for such a minor detail.

I didn't know disturbing was strong language. The fact that its a minor detail doesn't make it irrelevant... especially on an off topic internet forum.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

How does the party have more of a western voice now? Because of the continual pandering to Quebec? The dismantling of the wheat board? Maybe its the flip-flop on bilingualism over the past few years or the appointment of non-elected (in any house) cabinet ministers?

No, at the end of the day the only reason that this party has more of a western voice is because they have elected members on the government side from here. The same western voice could've been accomplished by electing a few Liberals over the past decade!

It is the Western Farmers that want to CHOOSE who they sell their grain to...not be told they have to sell it to the wheat board for the once specific price.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

It is the Western Farmers that want to CHOOSE who they sell their grain to...not be told they have to sell it to the wheat board for the once specific price.

Well this is an argument for another thread...but the jury is out on that one.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

It is the Western Farmers that want to CHOOSE who they sell their grain to...not be told they have to sell it to the wheat board for the once specific price.

Originally Posted by Slava

Well this is an argument for another thread...but the jury is out on that one.

Yeah, you may want to change that quote to Alberta farmer. Manitoba farmers still support the CWB. It is a fairly regional issue.

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I didn't know disturbing was strong language. The fact that its a minor detail doesn't make it irrelevant... especially on an off topic internet forum.

I never questioned the relevance, just the sensationalist tone of his comment.

An increase the crime rate is disturbing. A group of people calling themselves a name that they're entitled to is not.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Why should you be disturbed? You're obviously not a Conservative supporter. Them calling themselves Tories is "disturbing"? Wow such strong language for such a minor detail.

It's not strong language.
I lament the demolition of the conservative party that best matches my own set of values. In some ways, you could refer to me as a Red Tory.

The current Conservative party is not Tory, it is conservative. It has more in common with the USA then it does with Britain. In many respects, it has more incommon with the USA then it does with Eastern Canada! And to me, that is what I find disturbing.

It's not a minor detail either. Tory refers to a tradition and ideology.