Bin Laden says US should "join Islam" if they want Iraq war to end.

[transplant99]

Its a new tape that has been released....not online yet I dont believe. Officials still have to verify authenticity....but if so its his first appearance since 04 IIRC.

OK...so how does an entire country "join Islam" anyhow? Is there an application online somewhere? Strange thing to say rather than telling the US to get out of the middle east....no?

[Juventus3]

I'm sure whatever his reason for saying it, he discussed it with the Bush family first.

Ahhh the peaceful thoughts of a world with no Bush's or Bin Laden's.

[The Goon]

Fair enough request. Get on it, Americans!

[Khel]

What's taking so long?

[Ozy_Flame]

Well that's counter-productive. Maybe if we were all agnostic, then we wouldn't be having these problems in the first place.

But, I digress.

[Agamemnon]

It seems like a pretty rhetorical request... I'm not sure why anyone would read into the practicality of bin Laden's suggestion, seems like a waste of time (unless you think there's a chance of it happening... I don't).

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

We have to remember that we are not the audience for these kinds of declarations. bin Laden's long-term agenda is to establish a caliphate in the middle east--and his audience is fundamentalist Islamists and the Arab street.

Precisely what he demands is immaterial. Even if it were something the West could conceivably do, there would be no percentage in acquiescing to his demands. No matter what the west does, he and his ilk will find a way to spin it in a manner that supports this apocalyptic (verging on nihilistic) fundamentalist agenda. No matter what the west does, we will always be the infidels according to his worldview.

The only solution is to genuinely work for a democratized, modernized and secular middle east--a lofty goal, and a long-term one--but it would push lunatics like bin Laden out of the mainstream. Instead we waste our time toppling secular dictatorships and sinking massive military resources into a proverbial tarpit of a country. Which has the effect of radicalizing those countries, and thus serving bin Laden's agenda better than anything he could have done.

All because we have a president in the U.S. who doesn't understand that geopolitics isn't like Risk. It's not a series of zero-sum dice tosses where the largest army always wins.

I don't pretend that I have any answers--but when this guy still has as much traction as he did before 9/11, something isn't right. I just don't understand why he isn't seen as the lunatic sociopath that he is.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I just don't understand why he isn't seen as the lunatic sociopath that he is.

A huge part of that problem is perception. In the middle east where alot of the media is sensored and essentially lies, they feed the radicalization machine by showing the west as an evil empire coming to destroy Islam. In many mosques around the world so called leaders of Islam spew a political agenda and wrap it up neatly in a religious message. Its quite sad that they can convince a poor uneducated muslim to drive a truck bomb into a market full of women and children. They claim its all in the name of God but really to further a very worldly agenda. As an athiest I find the entire thing utterly pathetic, every religion not just Islam is about control. They seed the minds of the young with a pack of lies and fight to the death to maintain that control. I'm sure alot of people would disagree about that but honestly imagine a world without religion. I think people would value human life even more if they realized theres nothing after this world for them.

[TheContact]

A huge part of that problem is perception. In the middle east where alot of the media is sensored and essentially lies, they feed the radicalization machine by showing the west as an evil empire coming to destroy Islam.

While this is undoubtedly true, the Western world suffers from roughly the same problem (though perhaps to a different degree). Propaganda and "spinning" the truth are fairly standard tactics for both politics as well as a country's or culture's own self-preservation of identity.

This is nothing more than the same surprisingly effective strategy being employed yet again.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by TheContact

While this is undoubtedly true, the Western world suffers from roughly the same problem (though perhaps to a different degree). Propaganda and "spinning" the truth are fairly standard tactics for both politics as well as a country's or culture's own self-preservation of identity.

This is nothing more than the same surprisingly effective strategy being employed yet again.

I agree completely with that statement. Unfortunately these days there is no such thing as fair and impartial journalism. Atleast here in the west the majority of our media isnt just a wing of the federal government like in a lot of the world, CBC being an exception. I think the recent consolidation of many major global media companies has only narrowed the range of views and opinions that we see or hear.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by fotze

Maybe Darth Osama is America's father too.

That means Canada = Leia, England = Han and Australia = Chewy? Alaska and Hawaii are clearly C3-P0 and R2-D2.

So who's the Emperor?!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

We have to remember that we are not the audience for these kinds of declarations. bin Laden's long-term agenda is to establish a caliphate in the middle east...
.

And ironically enough, removing a brutal enemy of the caliphate ideal like Saddam Hussein has probably helped Osama bin Laden more than it hurt him, afterall, Saddam Hussein's secularism stood in his way.

I wonder if either bin Laden or Bush will ever see that though.

[Hack&Lube]

Basically he is outlining his version of why democracy is a failure...veiled as a suggestion to Americans that their democracy has failed but more of a message to his Islamic middle eastern audience to reject the democracy the west is trying to impose upon them as another corrupt form of government and that Islam is the only answer.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

That means Canada = Leia, England = Han and Australia = Chewy? Alaska and Hawaii are clearly C3-P0 and R2-D2.

So who's the Emperor?!

China.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK...so how does an entire country "join Islam" anyhow? Is there an application online somewhere? Strange thing to say rather than telling the US to get out of the middle east....no?

It actually makes sense when you read the whole quote:

"The war in Iraq will never end until the infidel Americans join Islam. . . . in congratulating Freddie Shebewitz on his upcoming Bar Mitzvah. Way to go Freddie, you're the bomb!"

Just another example of a celebrity selling out to a rich, overly indulgent parent who wants their kid's party to be the talk of the social season.

[Gugstanley]

can someone break down what services I get with my 2.5 percent islam tax? Do they throw in any virgins? I think he needs to sell his pitch a little better

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Gugstanley

can someone break down what services I get with my 2.5 percent islam tax? Do they throw in any virgins? I think he needs to sell his pitch a little better

I found this very funny.

If he's trying to convince me to live in a cave and quit shaving for the rest of my life, I think Im out...

[Caged Great]

The reason why Bin Laden is trying to convert the US to Islam is sort of like how the Catholics confess their sins. If you just admit you're wrong, then everything is okay. Bin Laden wants the US to admit that they are living the lives of infidels and that it's wrong so they will believe in the Bin Laden brand of Islam. It's merely a pretext by Bin Laden to say "oh well, I tried to convert the infidels, now they must die"

[CrusaderPi]

Little known fact about Islam, they give three choices for the nonbelievers:

1. Accept Islam
2. Pay the jizya (basically a tax placed on non-Muslims by Muslims)
3. War with Muslims

Bin Laden has to offer his religion to the enemy for his actions to be justified by the religion. Basically he is just checking off one of the items in the 'to do list' for a justifiable jihad.

Always remember, "peaceful coexistence as equals in a pluralistic society" isn't one of the choices.

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Little known fact about Islam, they give three choices for the nonbelievers:

1. Accept Islam
2. Pay the jizya (basically a tax placed on non-Muslims by Muslims)
3. War with Muslims

Bin Laden has to offer his religion to the enemy for his actions to be justified by the religion. Basically he is just checking off one of the items in the 'to do list' for a justifiable jihad.

Always remember, "peaceful coexistence as equals in a pluralistic society" isn't one of the choices.

How wrong is it that I know closely associate the term 'jihad' with calgarypuck, and not islam?