Negotiating A Job Offer

[HelloHockeyFans]

I'm extremely inexperienced in this department since all of my previous work experience has been through CO-OP while I was a student and I was given an attractive offer out of school as a consultant and basically accepted right away.

Any how, I've been actively looking for work over the last month or so since my contract is due to expire in December and I don't want to jinx myself, but the recruiter contacted me earlier tonight and said the company I interviewed with for the 2nd time today is going to forward an offer to me very soon.

Background: I've also been interviewing with a second company and I have a 3rd interview scheduled with them for next week. I told the first company about these talks with the second company to keep them in the loop, so they are aware, which is why I think they're in such a rush now to send an offer my way.

Do I have leverage? I would think so since the first company is moving at such a quick pace, no? (I had my first interview with the first company after my first interview with the second company and it looks like their offer is going to come first.) The recruiter working with the first company has been constantly asking me about the second company and what their dollar figure is (which they haven't given me yet).

Should I push for a higher offer if it comes before I get an offer from the second company? I don't have significant experience in the role they're hiring me for (think Junior-level), but they're really focusing on their perceived career potential for me within the organization once I'm in and have some experience under my belt based on other work experience I have that is unrelated to this specific role (project management, business analyst stuff) and my personality (they say).

Just a little stumped on what to do if this offer comes through. Take it if it's "decent"? Or push it just a bit to get a little more (i.e. salary, benefits, vacation, etc.)?

Advice?

[Ashartus]

If it's a junior position and you're just getting started in your career, I wouldn't be too greedy - the important thing is to get established in your field, and once that happens you can hold out for the really good deals. By all means make sure the offer is fair, but if they know there's another firm pursuing you they might already be offering close to the maximum they'd be prepared to give you. So I wouldn't bargain to aggressively and risk not getting the job - I'm not saying don't negotiate at all, just be prepared for them not to move much. Also, a lot of companies have fairly fixed policies on things like vacation, benefits etc.

[jammies]

The question is really: is the offer they are giving you fair, and is it more or less than you had expected? There is nothing wrong with squeezing them for more if you can get it, but in general that is something you do once you have established yourself in an industry, not when you are starting out. If you already feel this is a good contract, then you are just being greedy (not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that) by asking for more, and this may sour them on bringing you on board at all.

If you think their offer is below what you are worth, however, I would ask for more AND be prepared to turn them down if they don't budge. It doesn't sound like there is any big hurry for you to get a job lined up, so don't be pressured into taking the first thing that comes along if you don't have to. Just be sure that if you say no, you give them the conditions on which you will accept, because you never know if upper management will intervene at that point and cave to you - I've had it happen for me, so it is possible.

As far as opportunities within the organization go as an incentive, I would say that in the majority of cases you progress further by switching organizations than you do by sticking with one, as loyalty is rarely rewarded, despite what promises the recruiters may give (who are almost never the same people who actually do the promoting). One way I determine if such promises are smoke or not, is to ask the person interviewing me how long they have been working with the organization - if they are middle or upper management and have been there less than a couple years, you can almost guarantee that their rhetoric about you have the chance to "go places" has little credibility.

[Mike F]

Agree about a junior needing to concentrate on establishing him/herself and not getting greedy.

If you're wanting to negotiate but willing to take a slightly weaker negotiating position to protect yourself, you could open by asking if their offer is negotiable. If they say yes, come back with a counter offer; if they say not decide whether you can live with their offer.

[Flames in 07]

Pick a job that will give you the best experince. That will mean the most in the long run, and careful how hard you squeeze, the only thing as unattractive than a company that looks for ways to screw its employees, are employees that look for ways to screw the company.

[CaptainCrunch]

I agree for the most part with what the other guys have been saying here, with a junior position its likely that you don't have a great deal of leverage and if you push to hard they'll move down to the next in the list of candidates. It dosen't hurt to ask if the offer is negotiable, but make sure that you do some due dilligance and try to find out what other people in other organizations are making, going to the Alberta Salary Survey site can't hurt either.

When you get more senior, you'll find that you are expected to negotiate, currently I'm in negotiations with 6 different companies, and to some extent I can play the competitors against each other.

Experience does have its benefits.

[corporatejay]

Hate to beat a dead horse here but I agree with everything above. Some of the other things to consider are the intangibles you will get from Company 1 over Company 2. Is their training better? Will you be working with industry leaders? In some fields some of the biggest and best companies to work for pay "average" in salary because they know that 5-10k for a junior isn't as important as establishing yourself and getting a good foundation. Think longterm and don't be short sighted.

Ultimately make sure you are being paid what you are worth (or what you think you are worth).

[Sample00]

I'm just surprised to hear that NOOB has skills
anyone else?

[flambers]

As other have mentioned, do a quick background check on both companies and pick the one that will offer the best opportunty for yourself.

As for negotiating, there is other area's to focus on other than salary (assuming there is no room to move).... such as Vacation, Company RRSP programs etc.....

Experts will tell an employee to do your homework and come prepared with this question. Try to find out what is the industry going rate for this type of position.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I'm a complete n00b to this so everything is being listened to and considered for sure.

I agree with the sentiment that since it is a Junior position and I don't even have that much experience specifically related to the position, that I should take what I get. I guess the main goal of my post was to find out how to negotiate the job offer and whether or not simply being this far in the process with another company is good enough leverage to usurp the fact that I might not have that much experience for this specific role.

Any way, an offer did come in earlier today, and the recruiter said the company was offering the maximum they are willing to give... not sure if she's lying or being honest with me though...

The offer is a little higher than the average I found online for the position, so she's probably telling the truth.

Originally Posted by fotze

I thought he had been working in this field for years after graduation as a consultant? If it is in engineering design you can be quite valuable after 3 years experience. You realize that once you have started somewhere, your negotiating leverage drops 10-fold. Don't be a weasel, negotiate and leverage yourself as much as you believe yourself to be worth. You also don;t want to start somewhere being less valuable than other people and being paid $20k more than them.

I'm assuming you're talking about me fotze? If so, no, I just graduated this past December and all my prior experience was through CO-OP, although I also worked part-time during the school years in engineering positions as well. My first job out of university is the one I'm currently at now, which I started in February.

Originally Posted by Sample00

I'm just surprised to hear that NOOB has skills
anyone else?

You still work Axel? Shouldn't the elderly retire when they pass 80 and give us young cats your jobs?

[Fobby]

Money isn't everything. Assuming that they are paying you enough that you won't go hungry... As long as the job that you are taking on will enhance your skillset, that's what you should be focusing on right now. You just graduated. Get your name established, well known in the industry, then you will have all the leverage in the field to get the salary you want.

As for negotiating skill.. think of a number that you want your salary to be. Be reasonable, and counter offer with that number. if you are the one that fits the job description, and they can't offer your number, the worse they can say is no, and the last offer still stands. If they say sorry, too bad, we don't want you to work here anymore. That means they can replace you with a snap of a finger. You probably don't want that job anyways.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

start taking off your clothes if they don't give you want you want.

[Fobby]

Only works if you are one of those rare hot engineering girls...

http://www.amazon.com/2007-Girls-Eng.../dp/B000KH38IY

[kermitology]

There are two things to consider here generally.

First is the pay, second is the experience.

Is the pay FAIR? My first job offer was insulting. The company claimed to use the APEGGA salary survey, so I checked it out, and they were going to pay me for an A- job type (that's an intern wage). I refused to be paid so low, so I tried to negotiate, but they refused to negotiate.

While I was taking more time to consider their stance, another offer came in. It met my minimum requirements for pay, but the experience was going to be great. I took it, worked for just over a year and managed to get enough experience that I landed an offer from a California competetor. Now, in that interview one of the guys said I lied on my resume about what I've done, so I decided not to take that job.

In December I got an interview with my current company, landed the job, but once again I was getting paid less than I was hoping. But I took all my experience, applied it, and now I'm a core element to a project that is saving my company more than $1MM/year. (So I'm hoping for a nice raise)

In your youth it's all about finding a good mentor, and building up your skills so that you can get more money down the road. I've got lots of time to make money, but the more I know how to do, and the better I am at doing it, the more opportunities I can take advantage of in the future.

That or you can sell your soul to the devil, devise a strict plan of 5 years in Ft. Mac where you DON'T DO ANYTHING other than work, and retire early.

[jamesteterenko]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

Any way, an offer did come in earlier today, and the recruiter said the company was offering the maximum they are willing to give... not sure if she's lying or being honest with me though...

The offer is a little higher than the average I found online for the position, so she's probably telling the truth.

In terms of negotiating, I would try to have both offers open at the same time. This way, you will be able to choose between the two. There are a number of advantages to doing so. If you have one job that you prefer but aspects of the other that you really like such as: salary, time off, responsibilities, etc. You can say something like, "I am leaning towards accepting this offer, but I am still considering this other one because of <whatever your reason>. Is there anything you can do to address this?" If you put it politely and honestly, it should not work against you and they might do something to address your issue.

James.