Blu-ray Vs. HD DVD not as close as expected... (Official- HD-DVD Dead)

[foofighter15]

its pretty easy to figure out which one will win. Follow the porn. Whichever because the main format for Porn will win. Mark my words

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You sure about that? My understanding is the only difference between HDMI and the latest DVI is that HDMI carries sound. As long as the DVI is HDCP compliant on both ends, there is no problem. [That is, your source is HDCP compliant and your TV or monitor is HDCP compliant.] If there is, I've just invested in an HDCP compliant computer with an HDCP video card for nothing.

The problem seems to be whether the XBox with DVI is HDCP compliant. Further reading seems to say that the Xbox only has component outs. Yeah, component won't work properly if they turn on ICT. I can't believe the Xbox360 came out with a component connection.

Yeah, I'm sure. This is one of the ways of removing the "analog hole". The studios are afraid of someone putting a recording device in place of the TV.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/hdtv/idx/0...int_Token.html

[ernie]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Yes, to a certain extent. However a good movie will draw you in, and with a good surround system you will be a part of the movie. Now take that same good movie, throw in some macroblocking, and all of a sudden you take yourself out of the movie for a sec while you become slightly annoyed at the compression artifacts on the screen.

Add to that the fact that a mediocre movie will be more enjoyable in HD than SD. As an example, I don't like baseball. But when I got my HDTV I sat and watched an entire game; simply because it was in HD.

I'm not a HD movie virgin or anything. I just don't find that an HD picture in place of a good regular DVD player and good HD TV adds anything to the movie experience. Something like Surround sound does I agree but not the picture (EXCEPT for the Planet Earth series but not regular movies).

Sports is a different case...the advantage of HD is that you get that feeling of depth with the field and you have a larger view area where you can see the plays develop unlike the regular broadcast (if the HD broadcast is done properly).

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Yeah, I'm sure. This is one of the ways of removing the "analog hole". The studios are afraid of someone putting a recording device in place of the TV.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/hdtv/idx/0...int_Token.html

I agree, analogue connections such as component won't work or will downgrade to a non HD resolution but DVI that is HDCP compliant will be fine. If I'm wrong then thousands of people building HD HTPCs are going to be buying new video cards and the video card makers are going to have to build new cards with HDMI out connections.

The nVidia 8600GTS and the ATI 2600 video cards are HDCP compliant and are specificly made for decoding HD and ahve DVI out. DVI is digital and the only difference from HDMI is that it doesn't carry sound. HDMI is only good for lessening your wire mess to your TV as no TVs that I've heard of carry decent sound. If you want a true HD experience, you have to connect a digital sound source to your stereo via toslink or other digital connection.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Really? Because it didn't seem like to me that DIVX stood a chance. IMO DIVX only stood to benefit from the people who lived far away from major centres, and typically those people aren't early adopters of technology; never mind how few people live outside of urban areas.

Plus, my first DVD player supported both formats. (A circa 1998 RCA DVD player.)

Being that the DVD standard was agreed upon by everyone, then near release a crappy electronics chain and an LA law firm decide they want to create their own format, yeah it was doomed from the start.

The big issue and reason for the anger everyone had back then is it slowed the release of DVDs from certain studios who thought DIVX might be a viable option over DVD. Divx was terrible, bare bones, and while as a novelty might have worked for some it was still a joke.

The Divx fiasco only slowed the early adoption of DVD, slowed/halted releases of DVD's from studios, so yeah it was a huge pain in the ass and those of us back then organizing writing campaigns were determined to make it go away fast as possible.

Least this time around you could see the Blu-ray vs HD DVD coming a mile away.

Anyways with the comment you bought a player that did both, you are voting with your dollars, especially back then.

This time around while our dollars count of course, I think this war is won in the back rooms and negotiations for the studios to choose sides.

But porn did choose HD, so that will be our winner if history is an indicator

[Cerebral]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

its pretty easy to figure out which one will win. Follow the porn. Whichever because the main format for Porn will win. Mark my words

The porn industry sided with HD DVD early in the format war and it hasn't made a lick of difference so far. Just because porn was the deciding factor in Beta vs VHS doesn't mean the same will hold true for Blu-Ray vs HD DVD.

I would argue porn is an internet-driven industry at this point and that likely explains why it hasn't really given HD DVD much of an edge at all so far.

[oldschoolcalgary]

I think paramount's decision has a stale date, like 18 months or something...wouldn't surprise me if M$ offered a cash incentive to them to see if that would stem the tide of Blu-Ray...

I don't think porn will make that much of a difference - the internet affords a level of anonymity which is way better than going to a store to buy porn...secondly, a lot of pornstars are really, really concerned with the HD technology because it will show a lot more flaws (anyone who has seen silicone bouncing knows it is not a pleasure thing, even on VHS its nasty)...

on another note, I thought some genius figured/patented technology that would allow you to have both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray on a single disc? It was double sided, but a good idea...

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I think paramount's decision has a stale date, like 18 months or something...wouldn't surprise me if M$ offered a cash incentive to them to see if that would stem the tide of Blu-Ray...

I don't think porn will make that much of a difference - the internet affords a level of anonymity which is way better than going to a store to buy porn...secondly, a lot of pornstars are really, really concerned with the HD technology because it will show a lot more flaws (anyone who has seen silicone bouncing knows it is not a pleasure thing, even on VHS its nasty)...

on another note, I thought some genius figured/patented technology that would allow you to have both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray on a single disc? It was double sided, but a good idea...

They did - they received $150 Million. Although that is being described as for cooperative marketing.

Ars Technica has an interview with the CTO of Paramount about this decision.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...-dvd-coup.html

[Draug]

More interesting news, this time from Warner . . . If they side with HD-DVD, then Blu-Ray is done. If they side with Blu-Ray, then we'll have two formats for a long, long time. Of course, Nickerson stepping down could mean nothing as far as HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray goes - But, he was a huge advocate of HD-DVD.

"A senior vp at Warner, Nickerson was arguably the most visible executive in the high-def disc space, and a passionate cheerleader for the studio's dual-format stance.

Coming only days after Paramount (the only other dual-format supporting studio) announced that it would back HD DVD exclusively, news of Nickerson's exit is already raising a few eyebrows, with speculation swirling that perhaps Warner is also considering changing its format-neutral stance."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warners_High-Def_Disc_Guru_Exits_Post/893

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Cerebral

The porn industry sided with HD DVD early in the format war and it hasn't made a lick of difference so far. Just because porn was the deciding factor in Beta vs VHS doesn't mean the same will hold true for Blu-Ray vs HD DVD.

I would argue porn is an internet-driven industry at this point and that likely explains why it hasn't really given HD DVD much of an edge at all so far.

Porn wasn't the deciding factor with the VHS vs Beta war. It was that Sony vigorously protected it's IP with Beta and refused to allow third party manufacture of the item. No such problmes with VHS which was mass produced by several companies and dropped the price significantly compared to Beta. The Porn industry likes to think they are deciding factors when it comes to these things but even by their own inflated numbers they only account for 1-2% of DVD/VHS sales and rentals.

If porn were to decide any war it would be the war of these DVD formats vs digital delivery.

[alltherage]

I would say that regardless of the way this battle goes, Tangible Media is likely on it's last legs.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

its pretty easy to figure out which one will win. Follow the porn. Whichever because the main format for Porn will win. Mark my words

Seriously though, although that might have been true in that past, the fact that porn is now so easily accessable through the Internet has probably weakened that argument. Why rent when you can just download? Not that I know either way of course...

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by alltherage

I would say that regardless of the way this battle goes, Tangible Media is likely on it's last legs.

They'be been saying that for 20 years now.

[jamesteterenko]

Originally Posted by ernie

If porn were to decide any war it would be the war of these DVD formats vs digital delivery.

Originally Posted by alltherage

I would say that regardless of the way this battle goes, Tangible Media is likely on it's last legs.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Seriously though, although that might have been true in that past, the fact that porn is now so easily accessable through the Internet has probably weakened that argument. Why rent when you can just download? Not that I know either way of course...

So, if I combine what I hear you guys saying is:

• Bluray vs HDDVD is not the real war. The war is tangible vs. digital delivery
• Porn is primarily going through digital delivery
• Digital delivery will overcome tangible delivery soon

So, porn is leading the way for the next format, and it is not HDDVD or Bluray. It is digital delivery. That I believe. I don't have much desire to pick up either an HDDVD player or a Bluray player. I do have an HD PVR. It is amazing and I would recommend it to anyone. I wonder how sales of those compare to either of the tangible delivery players.

James.

[Bobblehead]

Here is another thought on the issue:

Market researchers reckon that most—90% by some reckoning—of Blu-ray discs are played on PS3 consoles. But Hollywood’s studios now realise they can’t pin the future of their precious video sales (today one of their main sources of revenue) on a game console that has failed to ignite widespread interest outside a dedicated circle of hard-core gamers.

http://economist.com/daily/columns/t...ory_id=9689600

[TurnedTheCorner]

I will fold on to tangible media as long as possible. Considering digital content needs to be backed up and archived anyway. Which is one of the annoying things about PVRs - they're awesome until you're forced to delete some stuff.

Would people buy TV shows on DVDs if they could back up HD PVR copies? I'm pretty certain the answer is no.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I will fold on to tangible media as long as possible. Considering digital content needs to be backed up and archived anyway. Which is one of the annoying things about PVRs - they're awesome until you're forced to delete some stuff.

Would people buy TV shows on DVDs if they could back up HD PVR copies? I'm pretty certain the answer is no.

Which is exactly why most PVRs will not allow you to save content to another computer.

The published reasons are that they don't want to allow piracy, and while I'm sure that is a consideration, I believe the real reason is they don't want to harm the futue DVD sales. Which is a valid reason from a business point of view, but not one which they can enforce with the anti-circumvention provisions in the DMCA (in the US).

[TurnedTheCorner]

Moving content from PVRs would be a double edged sword. Piracy would be a real concern, as it would also effect potential sales. Even if people didn't share the material, you'd still lose a potential customer.

Having said that, even if my Bell 9200 didn't crap out on me twice causing me to lose the early recordings of Heroes, I would still buy that set on the 28th. The show sold me an HD-DVD player.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Here is another thought on the issue:


http://economist.com/daily/columns/t...ory_id=9689600

Really that reasoning just goes to the attach rates of the stand alone players which HD-DVD is winning hands down. The HD movie buying public at this point seems to favour the HD-DVD lineup. Those people with a PS3 gaming console collecting dust because there are too few games are buying some Blu-ray movies to pass the time. ONce (if?) the games start coming to the PS3 those people stop buying movies and start buying games.

To sum up the article and the current state of things:
-Blu-ray has more capacity so more features and uncompressed sound may be a possibility. With that comes increased work for the movie release and increased cost to the consumer relative to a HD-DVD movie, if Blu-ray adds those extra features.
-like the PS3 in general Blu-ray is a pain to develop for and program. It requires extra resources yet the end price of the product can not be more than HD-DVDs at this time. Less profit.
-HD-DVDs can essentially be produced in todays fabs. Blu-ray needs at a minimum a complete retro-fit or even complete replacement of equipment. That's a HUGE cost once again limiting profitability. Be interesting to also see the equipment foot prints, productivity etc.
-Hd-DVD is going the interactive route which may draw people in.

the war is far from over for these formats. but really even taking the combined movie sales of the formats since inception they are nothing compared to one week of regular old DVD sales. Both formats have a LONG way to go to overcome regular DVD and then they also have to fend off the digital delivery challenge.

[ernie]

edited my post and added to it...seems to have double posted the original somehow without any changes.