Large-Scale Biodiesel Refinery To Be Built in Alberta

[Nehkara]

West's first large-scale biodiesel refinery slated for Alberta

Western Canada's first large-scale biodiesel refinery could be built near Edmonton in Sturgeon County, where an application has been filed with the province to build a plant that would process canola oil.

The Edmonton-area plant will make 114 million litres a year of fuel-grade biodiesel from canola and 10,000 tonnes of glycerine.

Hooper said it may be 18 months before the refinery becomes a reality.

When the plant begins to produce fuel, it will first be sold to large diesel trucking fleets. Later, the company plans to blend biodiesel with traditional diesel and make their product available for retail sales.

This would be an excellent development for Alberta.

[Clarkey]

Why is it an excellent development? I'm not trying to be arguementative, I don't know too much about this stuff.

[Flames in 07]

The whole concept is rediculous.

energy is tight but to use food as fuel just trades one problem for another. It is some combination of selfish and ignorant.

People don't think twice about converting food to fuel just to subsidized Canadian and American unbelievably inefficient standards. Either pay the price for oil or don't use it.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

This would be an excellent development for Alberta.

Why? Biodiesel is a complete farce.

[jammies]

In the long run, converting non-oil based forms of energy in to bio-fuels *may* be the most efficient way to run transportation networks. Research and development in these areas, although not currently economically sensible, is a valid and useful hedge against the future - after all, you probably won't be able to put a fusion generator in every new car model of the 2030 (or whatever) season, so putting hydrogen or canola diesel or gigawatts of electricity into your car may be the way to go.

[Nehkara]

No matter what you think of biodiesel, obviously they believe they have people to buy it and can support that amount of production. It should help canola farmers as well.

[Azure]

In the long run...it will help, as the burden it taken off of the oil fields.

I like it.

[photon]

I'm not convinced that biodiesel will be a fruitful path, but it'll create jobs and put more money into the province so go for it.

I mean using plants to make fuel for energy production is about 1% effecient from what I've read, compared to what, over 30% for some solar cells now? Of course plants grow themselves while solar cells need to be made so cost is cheap for plants.

And with food already a world wide problem, taking away food crop land to create biofuel land (or worse, cutting down more forests and such) is a concern I would think.

Then again maybe a genetically engineered plant that produces 90% oil could be made and make it worth while.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by photon

And with food already a world wide problem, taking away food crop land to create biofuel land (or worse, cutting down more forests and such) is a concern I would think.

Deforestation probably wouldn't be an issue: canola is best suited to climates such as the Canadian prairies. You won't see anyone plowing down the amazon to plant canola. Plus it produces something like 1,200 litres of oil per hectare, while the highly touted (and rightfully derided on this forum) source, corn, produces around 175 l/ha. Canola is still well behind palm and tallow oil, but by far the best of any north-american crop.

I'm not sure about the amount of energy used to produce canola, and it still may not make sense from an energy-in/energy-out process, but if the process can be improved, this is a huge opportunity for Canadian farmers. A huge increase to prices for one crop will have a trickle-down effect for the entire sector: as canola prices increase, more farmers will turn to canola operations, supply of traditional grain crops will decrease, and prices will go up. Of course, not good for consumers, but a big positive for the agriculture industry, who will then receive less subsidy from the government, which will in turn benefit taxpayers.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Of course, not good for consumers, but a big positive for the agriculture industry, who will then receive less subsidy from the government, which will in turn benefit taxpayers.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I'll wager everythign to do with bio-diesel is funded by taxpayers, including the farmers.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I'll wager everythign to do with bio-diesel is funded by taxpayers, including the farmers.

What's a populist idea that makes minimal sense but lots of jobs without a little subsidy to grease the rediculous process?!

What could be more selfish than taking food out of a system that is short food to begin with to put it through an expensive inefficient process to create a little more energy?

What if the US did something that caused a basic food staple to us, say bread for example to triple in costs, all so they could stuff themselves with a little more energy that is space heating ever expanding homes or powering ever expanding vehicles? We'd think they are the worst people on earth, yet we do it and "it seems to make sense because it will artificially create a few jobs".

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

The whole concept is rediculous.

energy is tight but to use food as fuel just trades one problem for another. It is some combination of selfish and ignorant.

People don't think twice about converting food to fuel just to subsidized Canadian and American unbelievably inefficient standards. Either pay the price for oil or don't use it.

An interesting documentary on Scifi tonight pointed out the developing technologies that will help the world move away from the dependence on oil, and one of them was the amazing advances that have been made in the arenas of bio-diesel and ethanol plants. Genetically manipulated bacteria are now being used to generate more fuel than ever before, and from strictly waste products from plants like corn and canola. The fuel is collected from the leaves and stalks of the plant, not the food source itself. It is solutions like this that are the future. Turning our waste products into energy is the wave of the future and could make many of our problems today disappear. But then again, that's likely just me being a combination of selfish and ignorant.

[Burninator]

It's funny hearing people say they want to help the global warming problem in one thread, and then completely dismiss any progress in that direction in another.

[Clarkey]

Is the world really short of food? I have a feeling that is a misconception but don't really have proof to back that up. I think it's a similar arguement as "we are running out of space on the planet," which really means some people are running out of space.

Also, how is creating fuel from plants any different than drilling into the ground for fuel? You are simply mining the soil which is also a finite resource. Soil has finite levels of minerals etc. and when you deplete that it takes a long time to regain those nutrients.

[Tron_fdc]

As a diesel truck owner, I'm suuuuuper leary of this stuff. It's been proven time and time again that bio diesel doesn't work well in cold temps, and the last thing I need is to be stuck on a highway somewhere with my injectors plugged. I'm assuming that they would have thought about these problems before putting a refinery in the frozen tundras surrounding Edmonton, but I'm going to sit on the fence on this one until I know it's not going to wreck my truck.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

As a diesel truck owner, I'm suuuuuper leary of this stuff. It's been proven time and time again that bio diesel doesn't work well in cold temps, and the last thing I need is to be stuck on a highway somewhere with my injectors plugged. I'm assuming that they would have thought about these problems before putting a refinery in the frozen tundras surrounding Edmonton, but I'm going to sit on the fence on this one until I know it's not going to wreck my truck.

That's what research and development money should be for then. They've already made a number of advances, why can't they make it withstand cold temeratures and such? It'll be done, oh yes. Take the waste products from a corned can factory or some such, (or build one here, that would be easier to transport,) and it now becomes quite economically feasible as well.

[Tron_fdc]

Yeah, transport is another problem. You can't pipe the stuff because it gels, so it has to be trucked.

Like i said, I'm hoping these factors were considered in the feasibility study.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

An interesting documentary on Scifi tonight pointed out the developing technologies that will help the world move away from the dependence on oil, and one of them was the amazing advances that have been made in the arenas of bio-diesel and ethanol plants. Genetically manipulated bacteria are now being used to generate more fuel than ever before, and from strictly waste products from plants like corn and canola. The fuel is collected from the leaves and stalks of the plant, not the food source itself. It is solutions like this that are the future. Turning our waste products into energy is the wave of the future and could make many of our problems today disappear. But then again, that's likely just me being a combination of selfish and ignorant.

That would be one heck of an advancement, since currently it IS the food stuffs that are the catalyst to getting ethanol. Reminds me of the "guns or butter" saying from WWII. Now it's "food or fuel".

I am not sold at all on ethanol or biodiesel. Too many starving people in the world to use up all the nutrients in the soil to power SUV's. Another red herring here, IMO.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

An interesting documentary on Scifi tonight pointed out the developing technologies that will help the world move away from the dependence on oil, and one of them was the amazing advances that have been made in the arenas of bio-diesel and ethanol plants. Genetically manipulated bacteria are now being used to generate more fuel than ever before, and from strictly waste products from plants like corn and canola. The fuel is collected from the leaves and stalks of the plant, not the food source itself. It is solutions like this that are the future. Turning our waste products into energy is the wave of the future and could make many of our problems today disappear. But then again, that's likely just me being a combination of selfish and ignorant.

Well there are upsides, I don't think this area of reseach is nearly as promising as fuel cells but you do point out an upside.

Someone else wondered if taking all the corn and converting to fuel really had any kind of impact here is a start

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/246743

and here

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/05/22/corn.html

and here

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02...rtilla_bubble/

and lastly, here

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=CBOT_C.U07&v=dmax


How about we all take a trip down to Mexico and explain to the folks who work all day for a wage that will barely cover food and rent that we need to run the prices of corn up in multiples to help heat our 2500 sq feet homes with 9 ft ceilings in the basement and run our SUV's that are empty most of the time. They may think we are a tad on the selfish side.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Yeah, transport is another problem. You can't pipe the stuff because it gels, so it has to be trucked.

Like i said, I'm hoping these factors were considered in the feasibility study.

yea and guess what fuel those trucks run on, making it even more inefficient.

15 years from now we will laugh at how rediculous people were.