I think we can all agree Ann Coulter is Crazy...

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Whoa bub. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Il Jung, Hussein, and their ilk are disgraces to humankind.

Ann just writes and says things that gets people upset. Whole different galaxy there.

Whoa bub? I said she is a disgrace not in the top ten of all time terrible people in the world. Good lord man.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Meh. So teachers work so unpaid overtime and have to take work home with them. So what? We've all had teachers that show up 5 minutes before the school day starts and beat the kids out the door. (I had several, so I assume others had some). At any rate I'm not about to feel sorry for anyone that gets 7 weeks of summer vacation, plus two at Christmas, and numerous bonus days during the actual working year.

Good on them for having a union with that kind of power, but it doesn't make me respect them as hard workers.

Now I feel really bad for that daughter of yours...wow...

[bigtmac19]

Have to disagree as well, with Crusader. My kids have now and have had some absolutely awesome teachers, who go way above and beyond for how much time they dedicate to the kids. I could not do that as a profession and really admire those who can, and who really love it. I am very grateful for some of my kids teachers, and I always let them know it as well.
Of course, as in any profession, there are some who should not be doing it, because it's quite obvious they don't care, but we have been really lucky with the great teachers we have had through the years.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Meh. So teachers work so unpaid overtime and have to take work home with them. So what? We've all had teachers that show up 5 minutes before the school day starts and beat the kids out the door. (I had several, so I assume others had some). At any rate I'm not about to feel sorry for anyone that gets 7 weeks of summer vacation, plus two at Christmas, and numerous bonus days during the actual working year.

Good on them for having a union with that kind of power, but it doesn't make me respect them as hard workers.

Just because you have had a couple bad teachers doesn't mean they are all slackers. Don't paint with such a broad brush. If you actually knew what you were talking about you would know that teachers don't get much more time off then the rest of the work force. They have to mark on the weeknights, and weekends, plan lessons, attend after hours meetings, meet with parents etc. All of those are outside of the regular 8 hour work day/40 hour week.

Here is another misconception about teachers that many people like yourself make; your kid and the teacher are not at the school for the same amount of time. Teachers are there before and after your kid leaves. And whatever you think these "bonus days" are, they don't exist. You know when your child is off of school because of a "PD day", that's a professional development day. The teachers are at school smart guy. And teachers convention are not days off either. They get the same STAT holidays as everyone and nothing more. You can also cut two weeks off your summer because teachers have to work a week after and before the school year that is off the books. They do this so your child gets a good education, not so you can belittle their profession.

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Yup, because a person with a different job doesn't have to deal with anything. Sure teachers have to deal with problems parents can't handle. But guess where those problems go when they are done with school? They move onto the real world and now work under me (at least that's how it seems). Of course now they have legal access to booze, and can find drugs way easier. So that probably makes them easier to handle. At least after a year I can move them to the next level of employment and they'll be out of my hair. Oh wait.

What the hell are you talking about? Because you can't handle a subordinate, you equate your problems to being worse than teacher handling 30 of them? Gimme a break. Whatever problems you think are related to your job and teaching can be thrown out the window, because they are not going to be in the same ballpark.

Of course I have to deal with jerk suppliers, contractors, competitors, vendors, permit agencies, and whoever else pisses me off on a day to day basis. Somehow I don't think teachers have to struggle with as wide a variety of issues.

Wah! wah! wah!

Yeah, yeah you have the toughest job, and everyone else is a bunch of slackers with cushy jobs. Get over yourself. I am sure your wide variety of issues deal are not nearly as focused as teaching people to read, dealing with demanding/ludicrous parents, educating children with learning disabilities, constantly evaluating 30 students, catering a demanding administration, constantly updating your curriculum and using your lunch hours and breaks for supervision and meetings. Yah that doesn't sound as varied as dealing with suppliers, competitors and vendors.

At least I take solace in knowing teachers are the only profession to work overtime. Because I haven't done any of that. Nor has any other worker. But just to compare, last week, the owner of the small company I work for worked 70 hours. How many hours did the average teacher work last week? The week before? Next week?

The ignorance is just pouring out of you. The difference between the owner of this small company and a teacher is not the overtime, but what they get out of it. I would assume that the small business owner is conducting business and is either furthering his company or making a profit. A teacher working overtime doesn't get paid extra, doesn't pull in extra profit for the school or themselves. They are putting in these extra hours for the benefit of the children. God forbid they ask for a wage that is decent. They aren't asking for the moon either.

Now this year was an oddity for me because I took January off on parental leave, and I didn't work for another months because I quit a job. All in all 8 weeks of not working is pretty good for me. Of course those 8 weeks are still less then what a teacher gets every year. But at least I don't have to deal with any stress. Or overtime. Or problem underlings.

Teachers: So hard done by. See you in September.

Holy crap. By the sounds of the garbage you are spewing out it sounds like you would be happy if teachers got a pay cut. Perhaps you should actually talk to a teacher before you pretend to know what it's like from that arm chair of yours. I've lived my whole life with a teacher in the same house, and you wouldn't believe how the hard the job is until you have heard about it first hand. I find extremely disappointing how undervalued they are by some. They are such a fundamental part of your child's development, and to portray them as a bunch of vacation filled slackers is sad. I feel the same as Flash.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Of course I have to deal with jerk suppliers, contractors, competitors, vendors, permit agencies, and whoever else pisses me off on a day to day basis. Somehow I don't think teachers have to struggle with as wide a variety of issues.

Laugh.

[Save Us Sutter]

Thank you Burninator for typing that all out so I didn't have to. Though I have a feeling I'm still going to rant here... apologizing in advance....

I grew up with a single mother who is also a teacher and a harder working woman I have never met. I was literally shaking with anger reading Crusader's comments.

The last two raises my mother got were because she took "all that vacation time" and went back to school for a couple of Master's degrees. In the past 10-12 years the government has given her exactly one raise on their own, as far as I can remember.

She gets to school before the kids do, and is routinely still there until well after supper. Then she comes home to sit on the couch with a pile of work that she has to get done by the next day. Not to mention dealing with her two sons whilst trying to get this work done.

For the record, she is currently enjoying her HUGE summer vacation by preparing her lesson plans for the next 30 kids that come through her door in September.

Teachers are expected to be parents/mentors/educators/friends to a group of students that extends even outside their own classroom to the entire school for (at least) 8 hours a day. How many hours did you spend with your kid(s) today? I can almost gurantee you it wasn't 8 hours. And I am willing to bet you don't have over 30 children. How exhausted does it make you to spend a couple hours with two 8 year olds? Even two 16 year olds? Multiply that by 15 and then go home and do some more work while still dealing with your own kids. Now get up and do it again. On your day off, don't go golfing, or to the beach. Instead stay home and try to think of creative ways to teach a 7 year old with ADD his times tables or a way to motivate a 16 year old pothead so he will stay in school... cause lord know's his parents aren't doing it.

Starting to get the picture?

Thank God there are people like my Mom in this world who are willing to sacrifice a good portion of their lives for the benefit of other people's families as well as the future of our whole freakin' society!!

MOD EDIT: Watch the language.

It's only unfair to them because that's the only time of the year they have to deal with their own kids for the day.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by Save Us Sutter

Thank you Burninator for typing that all out so I didn't have to. Though I have a feeling I'm still going to rant here... apologizing in advance....

I grew up with a single mother who is also a teacher and a harder working woman I have never met. I was literally shaking with anger reading Crusader's comments.

The last two raises my mother got were because she took "all that vacation time" and went back to school for a couple of Master's degrees. In the past 10-12 years the government has given her exactly one raise on their own, as far as I can remember.

She gets to school before the kids do, and is routinely still there until well after supper. Then she comes home to sit on the couch with a pile of work that she has to get done by the next day. Not to mention dealing with her two sons whilst trying to get this work done.

For the record, she is currently enjoying her HUGE summer vacation by preparing her lesson plans for the next 30 kids that come through her door in September.

Teachers are expected to be parents/mentors/educators/friends to a group of students that extends even outside their own classroom to the entire school for (at least) 8 hours a day. How many hours did you spend with your kid(s) today? I can almost gurantee you it wasn't 8 hours. And I am willing to bet you don't have over 30 children. How exhausted does it make you to spend a couple hours with two 8 year olds? Even two 16 year olds? Multiply that by 15 and then go home and do some more work while still dealing with your own kids. Now get up and do it again. On your day off, don't go golfing, or to the beach. Instead stay home and try to think of creative ways to teach a 7 year old with ADD his times tables or a way to motivate a 16 year old pothead so he will stay in school... cause lord know's his parents aren't doing it.

Starting to get the picture?

Thank God there are people like my Mom in this world who are willing to sacrifice a good portion of their lives for the benefit of other people's families as well as the future of our whole freakin' society!!

Amen.

Just kidding.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by lifer

Amen.

Just kidding.

Kidding?

[lifer]

indeed. Seriously, I agree with you about teachers and I find some of Crusader's comments to be quite wacky.

[Save Us Sutter]

Glad you agree, but I guess I just don't get the joke

To get this back on topic (although I am interested in Crusader's reply) here's my favourite quote from that Ann Coulter

"The ethic of conservation is the explicit abnegation of man's dominion over the Earth. The lower species are here for our use. God said so: Go forth, be fruitful, multiply, and rape the planet — it's yours. That's our job: drilling, mining and stripping. Sweaters are the anti-Biblical view. Big gas-guzzling cars with phones and CD players and wet bars — that's the Biblical view."

[lifer]

The joke is just juvenile. You know "i'm glad your mom is around too". It's not really funny unless you pretend you're 12

[Natt]

Don't get me wrong, I was proud long ago that I was studying to become a teacher.

But after this thread, that pride has grown exponentially. I can't stop smiling.

[Save Us Sutter]

Pretending I'm 12 is one of my favourite pasttimes! But shhh... don't tell my Mom!

Natt: Good luck in your studies. I've always wanted to be a teacher myself but I just don't think I could put up with that many kids around all the time! So university professor it is for me... less babysitting and more stroking my own ego! haha

[Flame Of Liberty]

I liked half of her quotes, Dems, liberals, media, religion, all gold. A little over the top to get the point across, but still gold nonetheless.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

I liked half of her quotes, Dems, liberals, media, religion, all gold. A little over the top to get the point across, but still gold nonetheless.

Odd. If I remember it right, you aren't a big fan of the government stealing all our money, but this woman espouses forced religious conversion (or murder, if it doesn't take) and you say it's "gold".

Which way is it?

[Regorium]

The reason teachers are paid what they are is simple - supply and demand.

Being a teacher requires basically any undergrad degree, and some will lead to a Masters in Education. Both of these degrees are complete jokes, most people that go this route have crappy undergrad degrees. Thus, you get far too many graduates for far too few positions. It's only going to get worse too, as people are having fewer and fewer kids.

If it's "all about the kids" and "having the personality for it", then money doesn't matter right? But if money does matter, why would you go into this field knowing that you don't get paid that much?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Being a teacher requires basically any undergrad degree, and some will lead to a Masters in Education. Both of these degrees are complete jokes,

What's a "non-joke" degree?

If the art teacher has a BFA and the science teacher has a BSc, are they joking?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Odd. If I remember it right, you aren't a big fan of the government stealing all our money, but this woman espouses forced religious conversion (or murder, if it doesn't take) and you say it's "gold".

Which way is it?

I said I liked half of them, not all of them. Some of them are waaay over the top or downright silly.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What's a "non-joke" degree?

If the art teacher has a BFA and the science teacher has a BSc, are they joking?

Well, for starters, I define a "joke" degree as anything in fine arts, as well as communications and psychology.

I expect the fine arts teacher to have a fine arts degree. BUT, you also should realize that there are probably several hundred thousand fine arts graduates every year because it's so easy. So to expect a wage that is similar to say, graduating from undergrad Commerce or Engineering which have far fewer graduates fighting for MORE positions because they are more required by industry, is asking for the moon.

Okay, you got me, one caveat. I have complete respect for my calculus/biology/physics/chemistry high school teachers. This is because all four of them have knowledge that rivals people at higher learning, and they themselves CHOSE to teach. Three of my high school teachers used to be professors that contributed to the scientific community, but decided that the cutthroat competition in getting grants and funding was too erratic.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Regorium

The reason teachers are paid what they are is simple - supply and demand.

Being a teacher requires basically any undergrad degree, and some will lead to a Masters in Education. Both of these degrees are complete jokes, most people that go this route have crappy undergrad degrees. Thus, you get far too many graduates for far too few positions. It's only going to get worse too, as people are having fewer and fewer kids.

That doesn't really jive with the teacher shortage right now.

If it's "all about the kids" and "having the personality for it", then money doesn't matter right? But if money does matter, why would you go into this field knowing that you don't get paid that much?

Yeah forget standard of living or owning property. What a terrible argument, that could be applied to any line of work. Or do you have to hate your job to get paid more? Gimmie a break. Teachers are people too. They have lives after work and families to go home to. Why is it so unreasonable that they ask for more money? I bet getting a raise at your job is way easier. Do you work for years without a contract? Does your wage increase get debated in the media and the government? Is the only way for you to get a raise is threaten to strike? Like I said before, teachers don't ask for the moon either. It's unreasonable to give them a raise. They just like every other profession out there.

Of course teachers get into the profession because they like the work and the children. BUT IT ISN'T ALWAYS THE ONLY REASON. No one said money doesn't matter, what's wrong with you. By your reasoning Teachers would be happy living behind the school in a box, and they'll happy because money doesn't matter and they love kids. But about their own kids? You need a decent wage to have a comfortable life. Why prevent them from having that? This province is rolling in cash, why do you want to penny pinch teachers? You're a joke.