Cold, hard facts take the heat out of some hot claims

[Azure]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/c...857765035.html

Imagine if the American government agency responsible for temperature records had announced a fortnight ago that it had overestimated annual temperatures since the year 2000. Imagine if, at the time of correcting this error, the hottest year on record was mysteriously altered from 1998 to 1934. Imagine further that if you considered the 10 hottest years on record after these corrections, the hottest decade changed from the 1990s to the 1930s.

Would that change your views on global warming? It should, because climate change theory says increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere raises the temperature. Yet the hot 1930s was hardly a decade of carbon-spewing industrial growth.

Well, all these things have happened. NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies calculates the average US temperature figures. It does this by processing data from land measurement sites. Earlier this year a Canadian mathematician named Steve McIntyre approached the institute and pointed out an error in its more recent calculations. Figures since 2000 had been inflated by about 0.15 of a degree celsius.

[ricosuave]

oops. our collective bad.

[blankall]

IF this is true and can be confirmed by more sources, it would be very interesting. Still doesn't explain the rate of glacier/iceberg melting we see in the poles.

[atb]

Reminds me of Michael Crichton's State of Fear

[arsenal]

This reminds me a quote from Office Space:

Michael: "I must've put a decimal point in the wrong place or something. bleep, I always do that. I always mess up some mundane detail."

If it is true that the 1930 was the warmest decade on record.. umm, oops.

[mykalberta]

Hey, it was a really hot July - that is proof of global warming

MYK

[Thunderball]

Looking at the new top 10, it's hard to see any signs of global warming. The ranking, starting from the hottest year, goes: 1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938, 1939.

Kind of kicks the "hockey stick" theory right in the ass... makes one wonder whether climate change truly is human activity influenced, or is a typical cycle that we as a species simply haven't been around to fully experience yet.

I don't know how these "experts" can screw up weather charting that badly.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Hey, it was a really hot July - that is proof of global warming

MYK

Nobody should be denying global warming...what causes it is what we love to debate.

[arsenal]

I think the 2 guys who challenged the "hockey stick" theory, got their hands on the software, and tried entering random data into it, and not matter what the inputs where, it still produced a "hockey stick".
But that is pure speculation. I don't have a link or hard copy to back that up.

[Kybosh]

This has been popping up in the scientific community for the past little while. I'm gonna try to dig up some literature for people to read through.

[Azure]

Yep, I saw an article about this a week back...didn't really know what to say.

Google News had it on their frontpage this morning again, so I figured I'd post it and see what people have to say.

[TheDragon]

Would that change your views on global warming? It should, because climate change theory says increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere raises the temperature. Yet the hot 1930s was hardly a decade of carbon-spewing industrial growth.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was. The late 1800's to early 1900's was the era of the coal burning locomotive, the coal burning power plant, coal burning factories, even steam powered boats that burned coal - none of which had any scrubber technology or reduced emissions. This was also known as the 'Industrial Revolution.' They were basically putting unfiltered C02 into the air at any given time. But that's only half of the problem, really. It's not just C02 contributing to climate change. Methane, fluxuations with the Ozone layer over the years, deforestation, even the rising temperature of the oceans has more to do with what we're seeing these days, as it's not so much "global warming" in that we're all going to have hot temperatures, as it is more about "climate change," in that were going to have more and more natural disasters, droughts, forest fires, etc.. Add in a volcano here or there going off, and it really messes things up for all of us.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by arsenal

I think the 2 guys who challenged the "hockey stick" theory, got their hands on the software, and tried entering random data into it, and not matter what the inputs where, it still produced a "hockey stick".
But that is pure speculation. I don't have a link or hard copy to back that up.

I thought the so called "hockey stick" graph was a complete fraud

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/13830/

but if Al Gore says it ain't thats good enough for me!!!

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by blankall

Still doesn't explain the rate of glacier/iceberg melting we see in the poles.

Or why Martian icecaps have been retreating in the same time frame.

Cowperson

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by blankall

IF this is true and can be confirmed by more sources, it would be very interesting. Still doesn't explain the rate of glacier/iceberg melting we see in the poles.

I was trying to find an article I read just yesterday that was published in the 1930s in a New York paper. It was warning that the Ice caps were melting then. So far no luck. Below is a link to a blog that comments on the iceberg melting phenomenon. It provides links.


http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...fb3cd&Issue_id=

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I thought the so called "hockey stick" graph was a complete fraud

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/13830/

but if Al Gore says it ain't thats good enough for me!!!

Sweet! glad someone is on the ball.

[REDVAN]

I knew it was a conspiracy all along.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I was trying to find an article I read just yesterday that was published in the 1930s in a New York paper. It was warning that the Ice caps were melting then. So far no luck. Below is a link to a blog that comments on the iceberg melting phenomenon. It provides links.


http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...b3cd&Issue_id=

the ice caps have been melting for thousands of years now..i mean alberta used to be covered in them..

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I thought the so called "hockey stick" graph was a complete fraud

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/13830/

but if Al Gore says it ain't thats good enough for me!!!

I think it's been clearly demonstrated that Mann's graphs are based on bad models, and he should pretty much be excluded from any debate on climate change for that reason alone; he's one of those guys who seemed to have a point he wanted to make, and created a model that he thought would prove it. Not that such scientists don't exist on the other side of the debate.

However, the warming trend has been produced by several other independent climate analysts working independently and often using entirely different methods; never so dramatic as in the Mann data.

Similarly, adjusting the temperature in the 1930s upward and the temperature in the 1990s downward by about a tenth of a degree doesn`t really have any bearing one way or another over the warming trends of the last two thousand years; I`ve seen only one data set that suggests that the 1900s were not the warmest of the last couple thousand years (one data set had the 1900s as the second warmest after the 1000s).

[Calgaryborn]

Effective September 1, 2007 the B.C. government has placed a new 0.4% levy on the sale of electricity, natural gas, grid propane and fuel oil that are non-transportation related to support the Innovation Clean Energy (ICE) fund. This levy will be reflected on your FortisBC bill.

The $25 million ICE fund has been introduced as part of the recently released BC Energy Plan. The government has stated that the fund will help support the development of clean power and energy efficiency technologies in the electricity, alternative energy, transportation, and oil and gas sectors.

Above is a little note I got with my power bill today.