Excellent Esquire Article: "Welcome to Idiot America"

[MarchHare]

This will surely provide a lively discussion.

It's a long article, but well worthy of the time it takes to read it, IMO.

http://www.esquire.com/print-this/ESQ0207GREETINGS

Welcome to Idiot America.

Let's take a tour, shall we? For the sake of time, we'll just cover the last year or so.

A federally funded abstinence program suggests that HIV can be transmitted through tears. An Alabama legislator proposes a bill to ban all books by gay authors. The Texas House passes a bill banning suggestive cheerleading. And nobody laughs at any of it, or even points out that, in the latter case, having Texas ban suggestive cheerleading is like having Nebraska ban corn.

James Dobson, a prominent conservative Christian spokesman, compares the Supreme Court to the Ku Klux Klan. Pat Robertson, another prominent conservative preacher, says that federal judges are a more serious threat to the country than is Al Qaeda and, apparently taking his text from the Book of Gambino, later sermonizes that the United States should get with it and snuff the democratically elected president of Venezuela.

The Congress of the United States intervenes to extend into a televised spectacle the prolonged death of a woman in Florida. The majority leader of the Senate, a physician, pronounces a diagnosis based on heavily edited videotape. The majority leader of the House of Representatives argues against cutting-edge research into the use of human stem cells by saying that "an embryo is a person. . . . We were all at one time embryos ourselves. So was Abraham. So was Muhammad. So was Jesus of Nazareth." Nobody laughs at him or points out that the same could be said of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or whoever invented the baby-back rib.

And, finally, in August, the cover of Time--for almost a century the dyspeptic voice of the American establishment--clears its throat, hems and haws and hacks like a headmaster gagging on his sherry, and asks, quite seriously: "Does God have a place in science class?"

Fights over evolution--and its faddish new camouflage, intelligent design, a pseudoscience that posits without proof or method that science is inadequate to explain existence and that supernatural causes must be considered--roil up school districts across the country. The president of the United States announces that he believes ID ought to be taught in the public schools on an equal footing with the theory of evolution. And in Dover, Pennsylvania, during one of these many controversies, a pastor named Ray Mummert delivers the line that both ends our tour and, in every real sense, sums it up:

"We've been attacked," he says, "by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture."

And there it is.

[rubecube]

Unfortunately, you can't remove the uninformed and feeble-minded from the democratic process.

[MelBridgeman]

the human race in general is full of idiots...

i heard a news report on 3 heat related deaths in the states yesterday

First death was because a man fell asleep in his car in a parking lot with the windows up and no air conditioning on - not heat related - idiot related (or suicide)

Second - A Lady had a nap, windows closed, no air conditioning on - not heat related - idiot related...

third one the same as the second....

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

the human race in general is full of idiots...

i heard a news report on 3 heat related deaths in the states yesterday

First death was because a man fell asleep in his car in a parking lot with the windows up and no air conditioning on - not heat related - idiot related (or suicide)

Second - A Lady had a nap, windows closed, no air conditioning on - not heat related - idiot related...

third one the same as the second....

What does any of that have to do with the linked article?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

What does any of that have to do with the linked article?

plenty...let me unarticulate it for you...idiots span the globe not just america

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

plenty...let me unarticulate it for you...idiots span the globe not just america

Thanks for your wonderful insight.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

plenty...let me unarticulate it for you...idiots span the globe not just america

Agreed.

They are almost uniformly white and almost uniformly bubbly. Their cars come from Kentucky and Tennessee and Ohio and Illinois and as far away as New Brunswick, Canada.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

plenty...let me unarticulate it for you...idiots span the globe not just america

That's fantastic, but I really do fail to see what that has to do with an article that is based around some more than questionalbe moves by government officials who are showing some incredible lack of common sense.

Falling asleep in a car has zero to do with legislation requiring teaching intellignet design, or banning "suggestive cheerleading".

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

That's fantastic, but I really do fail to see what that has to do with an article that is based around some more than questionalbe moves by government officials who are showing some incredible lack of common sense.

Falling asleep in a car has zero to do with legislation requiring teaching intellignet design, or banning "suggestive cheerleading".

really what gives with you testy people, lighten up, the article makes a point and gives examples, i expanded on that point and gave examples about a canadian news report, first thing that came to my head...blah blah...sorry if i didnt give specifics that may be required for some people to understand...

[photon]

Or when Texas appoints a young earth creationist to the head of the State Board of Education...

It's not just America either.

Is society going backwards from rationality? Or is it just taking a lot longer to transition from magical thinking?

[Save Us Sutter]

Wow. Thanks for that link.

Unfortunately it was a long article that probably won't translate too well onto television.

And therein lies the problem. Any one who bothers to read stuff like this, probably already recognizes the that something is very, very wrong in the world. Preaching to the choir so to speak.

How do you reach "Idiot America" with this message?

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by photon

Is society going backwards from rationality? Or is it just taking a lot longer to transition from magical thinking?

I think in the past people grasped onto the scientific method because it was thought it would reveal all the secrets of the world. Answer the questions we've struggled with for so long. The "why are we here" and the "who put us here" and the like.

Thing is, people have short attention spans, and the answers are taking longer than they had hoped.

So now, we're seeing the masses sort of revert back to the easy answers and leaving science behind.

I think the author also brings up a good point about how various "authorities" started using science for political gain. When one politician yells "Science says this!!!" and his opponent yells "Science says the opposite!!!" people are obviously going to get skeptical.

[Ozy_Flame]

Is that you, Thomas Hobbes?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

plenty...let me unarticulate it for you...idiots span the globe not just america

True, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the content of the article. The purpose of the essay wasn't to say, "haha, those dumbass Americans sure are stupid!" but rather to point out that a sizable segment of the American population has embraced a culture of willful ignorance, where they believe and teach children that humans rode saddleback on dinosaurs or that a supernatural proposal without any factual basis deserves equal standing in school classrooms to a scientific theory that has withstood the peer review of the top biologists in the world for nearly 200 years.

I think in the past people grasped onto the scientific method because it was thought it would reveal all the secrets of the world. Answer the questions we've struggled with for so long. The "why are we here" and the "who put us here" and the like.

Anyone who thinks that really doesn't understand what science is all about. Scientific analysis seeks only to answer "how", never "why"? "Why are we here?" is a question for philosophers whereas "How did life begin?" is a pursuit of science.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

True, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the content of the article. The purpose of the essay wasn't to say, "haha, those dumbass Americans sure are stupid!" but rather to point out that a sizable segment of the American population has embraced a culture of willful ignorance, where they believe and teach children that humans rode saddleback on dinosaurs or that a supernatural proposal without any factual basis deserves equal standing in school classrooms to a scientific theory that has withstood the peer review of the top biologists in the world for nearly 200 years.



Anyone who thinks that really doesn't understand what science is all about. Scientific analysis seeks only to answer "how", never "why"? "Why are we here?" is a question for philosophers whereas "How did life begin?" is a pursuit of science.

anyways, i just skimmed the article and nowhere did i see anything hinting at a "sizable segment"...the media reports crap - by no means does it mean its the majority thought, its usually the minority that has the loudest voice.

[MarchHare]

anyways, i just skimmed the article and nowhere did i see anything hinting at a "sizable segment"...the media reports crap - by no means does it mean its the majority thought, its usually the minority that has the loudest voice.

Since when does sizable segment equate to a majority? That was neither insinuated in the article or my posts. The people whom the article's author describes as "Idiot America" may not be a majority, but they're a large enough portion of the American population that they can swing elections one way. The fact that there's even a discussion over the ridiculous notion of teaching creationism in a science classroom should be telling enough about how much influence they're wielding.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Anyone who thinks that really doesn't understand what science is all about. Scientific analysis seeks only to answer "how", never "why"? "Why are we here?" is a question for philosophers whereas "How did life begin?" is a pursuit of science.

Hey, I understand that... I just don't think a lot of people make that distinction. A lot of people think if we can answer "how did life begin?" that we should automatically have the answer for "why are we here?"

As a side note, there is a great book i just read that seeks to answer the "how did life begin?" question. It's by Eric J Chaisson and is called "Epic of Evolution: The 7 Ages of the Cosmos". He writes in pretty broad terms, so pretty much anyone can understand it. Highly recommended.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Since when does sizable segment equate to a majority? That was neither insinuated in the article or my posts. The people whom the article's author describes as "Idiot America" may not be a majority, but they're a large enough portion of the American population that they can swing elections one way. The fact that there's even a discussion over the ridiculous notion of teaching creationism in a science classroom should be telling enough about how much influence they're wielding.

well i dont take this article seriously - the truth is its a very very small minority, altough the left wing and anti-replicans would like you to think otherwise, furthermore i live in canada and really dont give a rats ass about what they do in the states, if enough people want creationism in the science classroom, so be it, just because i think its stupid doesnt mean i should deprive people from what they want....its called tolerance and there isnt enough of it on either side of the spectrum.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

well i dont take this article seriously - the truth is its a very very small minority,

That's not true. It was a large enough segment of the population to get Bush elected, twice. That ain't very very small.

furthermore i live in canada and really dont give a rats ass about what they do in the states, if enough people want creationism in the science classroom, so be it, just because i think its stupid doesnt mean i should deprive people from what they want....

Your comments seem to indicate otherwise. You seem pretty worked up about the subject matter, so maybe that rat's ass has old glory tatooed on it.

its called tolerance and there isnt enough of it on either side of the spectrum.

Which is ironic, since the religious right is one of the most intolerant groups around (queue CalgaryBornAgain). The article points out that ignorance and intolerance go hand-in-hand, so I'm not sure why that should be accepted. Acceptance can be a catch-22.

[MarchHare]

well i dont take this article seriously - the truth is its a very very small minority

You're quite wrong about that point. For example, only 40% of Americans believe that "Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals."

http://www.data360.org/graph_group.a...h_Group_Id=286

if enough people want creationism in the science classroom, so be it, just because i think its stupid doesnt mean i should deprive people from what they want....its called tolerance and there isnt enough of it on either side of the spectrum.

No, that isn't tolerance at all. Tolerance is not caring what one believes in the privacy of one's home or place of religious worship. It does not mean that we should tolerate the teaching of superstitious beliefs with no factual basis in a science classroom.