North American Tipping Culture vs the Rest of the World

[Underdog]

"If I don't sit, I don't tip." Words to live by...

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Oh yeah, no, not tipping on takeout. No way.

Also, very weird that RMTs have a tip option. This is health care, what kind of massage places are you trying to emulate??

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Oh yeah, no, not tipping on takeout. No way.

Also, very weird that RMTs have a tip option. This is health care, what kind of massage places are you trying to emulate??

The ones that are mostly concerned about the tip?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

If you are having a meal (food and a drink for one person usually ends up on the 25 to 30 range before tax) that costs around 60 to 70 dollars, I have trouble tipping 14, which would amount to a small main on the menu. I'm not sure if I should be obligated to buy the server a meal.

I don’t really understand your math here but $14 is not much. I assume most tips are split, but if me dropping $70 means a server can go by a six piece nugs with fries and a drink then I’m happy for them. When you compare it to the “standard” rate of 15% it’s an extra $3.50 on a $70 meal. Not a big deal.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Thing is, it's rare that I actually get bad service nowadays. I've been eating out a bit more the last week and a half for YYCEXP, and the quality of those meals has varied, but essentially I end up with the following scenarios:

1. Meal is great and service is good (e.g. Love Damian). I'm tipping 20% and that's fine.
2. Service is good, but meal isn't great (e.g. Ibu on 14th st). I am still tipping 15% or 18%, because it's not the server's fault their menu wasn't up to standard.
3. Service is good but the kitchen is slow and the meal isn't great (e.g. Wilde on 27). Again, it's not the server's fault, so I'm probably still tipping the same as I would be otherwise.

The problem here is that in scenario 2 or 3, I'm still paying at least 40 and more often 50 bucks per person, and I didn't feel like I got good value for my money. Yet I'm getting even worse value because I don't feel like I'm going to express that in my tip, because it wasn't the thing I'm tipping for that caused me to feel less than happy with the experience.

That’s why I just do the flat 20% (agree with exemptions on takeout). End of the day the three scenarios you’ve worked out in your head have a difference of around $2-$2.50. Mentally haggling with yourself over it just isn’t worth the time or energy.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Oh yeah, no, not tipping on takeout. No way.

Also, very weird that RMTs have a tip option. This is health care, what kind of massage places are you trying to emulate??

The incentives are bad for RMT tipping imo.

Their base fee I can get 80% covered by insurance. Any tip is 0% covered.

[Amethyst]

Tipping for a massage is a thing for a massage at a spa (like pedicures, facials, etc). At a clinic, it's not. Well, it didn't used to be. Now everywhere has tip options.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Sure there is. This is exactly how a free market works.

Places with stupid tip prompts get less of my business and less $ per transaction. If everyone acted like me (amazingly) the market would force these places to knock it off.

Conversely, establishments and employees that respect the fact I may not be Daddy Warbucks capable of inflating all of my purchases by an arbitrary 30% will now see more market share, and more $ per transaction. This will hopefully fuel expansion by the "good guys" and imitation from the poor actors in their space.

Problem solved. Thanks to my "weird game". You're welcome

No the end state is every place doing the I’ll just hit no for you, you hitting the back button and you tipping.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Thing is, it's rare that I actually get bad service nowadays. I've been eating out a bit more the last week and a half for YYCEXP, and the quality of those meals has varied, but essentially I end up with the following scenarios:

1. Meal is great and service is good (e.g. Love Damian). I'm tipping 20% and that's fine.
2. Service is good, but meal isn't great (e.g. Ibu on 14th st). I am still tipping 15% or 18%, because it's not the server's fault their menu wasn't up to standard.
3. Service is good but the kitchen is slow and the meal isn't great (e.g. Wilde on 27). Again, it's not the server's fault, so I'm probably still tipping the same as I would be otherwise.

The problem here is that in scenario 2 or 3, I'm still paying at least 40 and more often 50 bucks per person, and I didn't feel like I got good value for my money. Yet I'm getting even worse value because I don't feel like I'm going to express that in my tip, because it wasn't the thing I'm tipping for that caused me to feel less than happy with the experience.

This is why it’s way easier to accept that sit down service comes with the cost of a tip baked in (like it does for large groups). Pick your number and never think about tipping again.

What didnt you like at IBU. I love that place though more so the appetizers than the mains.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Thing is, it's rare that I actually get bad service nowadays. I've been eating out a bit more the last week and a half for YYCEXP, and the quality of those meals has varied, but essentially I end up with the following scenarios:

1. Meal is great and service is good (e.g. Love Damian). I'm tipping 20% and that's fine.
2. Service is good, but meal isn't great (e.g. Ibu on 14th st). I am still tipping 15% or 18%, because it's not the server's fault their menu wasn't up to standard.
3. Service is good but the kitchen is slow and the meal isn't great (e.g. Wilde on 27). Again, it's not the server's fault, so I'm probably still tipping the same as I would be otherwise.

The problem here is that in scenario 2 or 3, I'm still paying at least 40 and more often 50 bucks per person, and I didn't feel like I got good value for my money. Yet I'm getting even worse value because I don't feel like I'm going to express that in my tip, because it wasn't the thing I'm tipping for that caused me to feel less than happy with the experience.

For better or worse, in a lot of restaurants that tip is being split between your server, bus person, bartender, AND the kitchen staff. The tips are pooled and everyone (even managers in some places) gets a cut.


If you knew that that the kitchen staff were getting 25% of your tip, would you still tip 20%?

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Many of the machines always show a tip screen. There is no way to not show it.

When you set up your point of Sale terminal with a card processor, they ask what industry your business is in. If it's in an industry where tipping is common then they add it. It can be removed or added at anytime, although some merchants don’t pay attention or don't know how to change the settings.
I always wonder about tipping in a food app before you pick up the food. If you don't tip are you getting some added saliva?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Thing is, it's rare that I actually get bad service nowadays.

Agreed, it's hard to find bad service. But when you get it, it's the grand slam of bad service.

We had service for Valentine's Day brunch that was genuinely, breathtakingly bad at Flower and Wolf in Eau Claire for their brunch 'all you can eat'. $44 a person, okay great, let's go for it. We ordered three things, got them and liked them so decided to try a few more items... but 20-25 minutes later, nothing from our second order had come out. I get the server's attention, he comes over and tells us somehow our order got missed -- he doesn't say whether he forgot to enter it, or the kitchen forgot to fire it, or they were taken to the wrong table by mistake. In any case, he says he'll get it taken care of. Okay, just make it right and I'm happy, a mistake is a mistake.

Another 20 minutes later and we've still not gotten anything we've ordered. I get his attention and he comes back to the table and I ask where our stuff is. He gives me this clueless expression like he has no idea what I'm talking about. "We ordered [items], you said there was a mistake and you'd handle it, is it coming soon, or...?" He replies that it was missed and therefore not coming, and was wondering if we were ready to order more stuff... as though our order was going to change from the items we had now been waiting like fifty minutes for. It's now over an hour into being seated.

I'm realizing that this is not going to get better with this server. I ask for the bill, and fifteen minutes later, he brings it to us. Still $44 x 2, no adjustment whatsoever to the bill. We've been served three items (of the eight we ordered in total) plus two cups of coffee... for $88.

I politely informed the manager that I wasn't paying the bill as presented and explained how poorly our nearly hour-and-a-half at his restaurant has gone. Slow mediocre service is one thing, this was an affront to the service industry entirely.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GGG

No the end state is every place doing the I’ll just hit no for you, you hitting the back button and you tipping.

This is like the homeless guys with the "I'll be honest, need money for beer" signs.

It's a transitory state and doesn't work very long when it's a widespread approach. People catch on.

No more tips for anyone.

Living wages.

You're welcome.

[Goriders]

Tipping at restaurants is a lot more inflated post Covid I have found.

That being said I typically tip at restaurants, the barber, food deliverers, the bar, Uber. That’s about it though.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by troutman

I’m not tipping necessarily for the service provided. Just trying to help a student, or single mom, immigrant, or person down on their luck.

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

So what about non tipping jobs? People who work hard but don’t have a machine with a tip prompt? The person checking you out at wal-mart, the guy selling you shoes at sport chek, the ramp workers at the airport…the list goes on. Why does someone handing you a coffee or beer deserves the extra that lots of other jobs don’t get? How about they all do the job for the pay offered, and not rely on a selective system where some of them get extra arbitrarily. Do you feel like it makes you a better person giving a few people extra, but not others that a societal ritual has deemed aren’t worthy?

How do restaurant workers in Europe and Japan and many other places survive?

And the servers at places like Charbar, Earls, or the River Cafe aren’t exactly disadvantaged. They’re typically from a middle or upper-middle-class backgrounds themselves, leveraging good looks and social fluency to secure more money while they’re transitioning into their middle-class and upper-middle-class futures.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That’s why I just do the flat 20% (agree with exemptions on takeout). End of the day the three scenarios you’ve worked out in your head have a difference of around $2-$2.50. Mentally haggling with yourself over it just isn’t worth the time or energy.

I have a magic number too - 15 per cent. That was considered a generous tip 20 years ago, and nothing has changed in my experience at restaurants to warrant an increase. But on a lot of machines today you have to select Custom to tip 15 per cent.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I have a magic number too - 15 per cent. That was considered a generous tip 20 years ago, and nothing has changed in my experience at restaurants to warrant an increase. But on a lot of machines today you have to select Custom to tip 15 per cent.

Except in Alberta you are now tipping 15.75% and somewhere like BC it's 16.8%, because at some point in that time the tip changed from being a tip on your bill to a tip on your bill including tax. That one just silently slipped in there.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

This is like the homeless guys with the "I'll be honest, need money for beer" signs.

It's a transitory state and doesn't work very long when it's a widespread approach. People catch on.

No more tips for anyone.

Living wages.

You're welcome.

Or you could decide not to tip at take out and skip the whole game playing. But you like the game playing or you wouldn’t do it. It’s wierd.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And the servers at places like Charbar, Earls, or the River Cafe aren’t exactly disadvantaged. They’re typically from a middle or upper-middle-class backgrounds themselves, leveraging good looks and social fluency to secure more money while they’re transitioning into their middle-class and upper-middle-class futures.

Without tipping you would lose your good looking servers. Serving is the worst job. It’s crappy shift length, crappy hours and you deal with #######s. If it paid the same as Walmart overnight shelf stocker it would attract the same type of employees.

These job pay better because they need to attract a certain level of employee.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

Without tipping you would lose your good looking servers. Serving is the worst job. It’s crappy shift length, crappy hours and you deal with #######s. If it paid the same as Walmart overnight shelf stocker it would attract the same type of employees.

These job pay better because they need to attract a certain level of employee.

So it would also take away a form of inequality, and the creepiness that comes from hiring managers picking out all the ones they'd like to bone? You are selling this well.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So it would also take away a form of inequality, and the creepiness that comes from hiring managers picking out all the ones they'd like to bone? You are selling this well.

I’m team eliminate tipping and incorporate it into the menu price and pay to hire the staff you want.

But eliminating tipping doesn’t change the issue you bring, if there are competitive wages and low barriers to entry the issue will occur. It would help out the harassment for better shifts problem and allow servers to fight back against customer harassment without jeopardizing income.