Do you appreciate that many think going to a chiropractor for anything other than lower back pain is insane?
You realize that I don't practice, right? I'm a science professor now. I'm not here defending chiropractic, so I don't know why you're trying to "gotcha" me. Seems like not the best way to engage with someone on a topic.
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"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
I'm more polite about it. I explain that we will never agree on this subject, so it's best just to drop it and talk about something else. He struggles to do that and continues to rant about it, so that's when I end the conversation.
I just wish there was a better way to deal with this insanity.
Send him this as soon as he starts spewing...
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Why can't I just get a normal happy birthday phone call from my brother without it instantly devolving into politics and extremist nonsense?
Within 5 minutes, he told me that he doesn't bother getting checkups and routine screenings from doctors because he's done a ton of "research" on healthy diet and therefore doesn't have any health problems*
Then it's a quick hop skip and a jump to him ranting about vaccines and how the COVID vaccine killed millions of people, including his neighbors. He goes on to list a bunch of anecdotal evidence cases that never confirmed anything scientifically related to getting vaccinated, but he's certain that hey died from it (during the height of the pandemic...so okay). He went on to rant about an RFK adjacent doctor who said you should never vaccinate during a pandemic (why was not made clear to me). He then boasted about how he's trained his children to fight, kick, and punch anyone in the school system who tries to vaccinate them. To which I responded ,"are you advocating for physical violence to health care workers over administering one of the safest and most effective forms of prevention that has saved billions of lives over countless generations?" only to hear him rant again about how vaccines killed millions of people every day and how they tried to put all the non-vaccinated in concentration camps all over the world. I tried to correct his understanding that there were quarantines during the height of the virus, which is not the same thing...the conversation ended pretty abruptly after that.
He still lives in Calgary. I'm pretty sure he's a UCP supporter too.
Someone help me cope with this crazy infesting my family. It's too upsetting to hear him still rant like this. I try and avoid this topic but it always comes up and it's just a non-starter on us having a decent relationship with each other. Help.
*that he knows of....because he isn't getting any screenings. The absence of information is not confirmation.
It reminds me of the old quote, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
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I'm more polite about it. I explain that we will never agree on this subject, so it's best just to drop it and talk about something else. He struggles to do that and continues to rant about it, so that's when I end the conversation.
I just wish there was a better way to deal with this insanity.
My 2 cents.
It is hard to get buy-in but I think a starting point is to just lay down ground rules for conversation (for all conversations going forward). If you can build a set of rules that both of you agree to then that could go a long way to having healthier conversations. Write it down and have both of you sign it and each of you keep a copy.
You should also try asking the question "Are you just ranting at me or do you want me to address this?". If he is just ranting then tell him to stop it and get over it. If he thinks he is sharing something interesting with you, you can tell him you do not find it interesting and you believe he is sharing misinformation. If he wants you to address his misconceptions then you should be able to use the rules of the conversation for him to start actively listening and asking questions instead of trying to ram his opinion into you.
If you cannot get him into the right mindset for healthier conversations then you can always drop the bomb on him and suggest that you two go to therapy together so he can learn the skills needed to have healthy conversations again. Therapy might be a good idea for him anyway... Maybe he can figure out how he let himself get brainwashed by the conservatives into not trusting experts in medicine and science while he probably still trusts other experts like mechanics or pilots.
Other ideas - Find a healthier way to scratch this itch of needing to talk "politics" with you:
Learn together about a new political ideologies with a goal of dismantling misconceptions. Try to apply the learnings to see what each of your top 5 ideologies are and then try to describe the various parties and their evolutions in that framework. Learn about the origin story of "Left" and "Right" politics (spoiler, it is meaningless and was just which side of the room each group was sitting on). Learn about the difference between culture wars and class wars.
Discuss new advances in real medical science, like the studies in COVID that are showing the long term effects of infections to people brains or weakening immune systems and making people more vulnerable to other infections or strokes. Challenge him to keep up with the science and not the facebook misinformation.
Discuss other science advancements, like electrification, and discuss how it could change the world.
Discuss misinformation, where are each of you going to find information? Is it trustworthy? Why is it trustworthy? Maybe get a family subscription to Ground.News
Expanding on the above point, get him to stop using Facebook (and all meta products), Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, etc. If he doesn't trust actual medical experts then he should trust these platforms of misinformation even less.
The trick though would be to try and discuss these things as an intellectual that is trying to learn about subjects instead of an ideologue who has an opinion already locked in.
That all sucks though, sorry you are in this situation.
Why can't I just get a normal happy birthday phone call from my brother without it instantly devolving into politics and extremist nonsense?
...
Someone help me cope with this crazy infesting my family. It's too upsetting to hear him still rant like this. I try and avoid this topic but it always comes up and it's just a non-starter on us having a decent relationship with each other. Help.
I have the same issue with my parents. They listen to a bunch of right wing podcasts. They're always talking about how violent Chicago is and how great the president of El Salvador is. They went to see Jordan Peterson. They bought my sister a grounding/earthing pad. It's exhausting.
I've given up trying to engage directly in specifics (politics or science), you can't combat the firehose of disinformation they consume every day.
But my parents aren't going to be around forever and I don't want to spend time talking about nonsense that doesn't have any direct impact on their lives anyway.
I have two different strategies these days.. the first is to simply not engage.. usually there's more people around and if there's a discussion going on I just ignore it.
The second is if I have no choice but to engage I maneuver the discussion to focus on values that we either agree on or things that are generic enough of philosophical enough that it can be a discussion at that level rather than trying to get into the specifics of how evil Carney is.
Like if we're talking about immigration I can talk about how we need some immigration to not become a shrinking aging population and about the positives and try and focus on things that we agree could be improved or changed. Or if they're talking about how socialism is going to turn Canada into Venezuela rather than trying to focus on the nonsense I just talk about how I want to make sure kids are safe and fed and people are cared for and stuff; values my parents usually share when not looking through MAGA coloured glasses.
It mostly works, since I've been doing this we haven't had any kind of more heated discussions. I have to be the adult.
But it feels like a terrible choice between having discussions that feel like a wedge is being driven between us or choosing the wedge that just drives me away (since having to do this basically makes me feel isolated). But I want my parents to be happy even if it means I have to suffer a bit.
And my mom was going on this weekend about how toxic and divisive politics have become... all the while talking about how terrible the left is. Before my new tactics I once mentioned to her that she's doing what she is against but she literally couldn't see it.
It sucks. I feel your pain.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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My crazy aunt on my dad's side and her idiot boyfriend (now husband apparently) were in town from Lethbridge last week -- no doubt because they were here for the Alberta separatist rally at Big Four -- and reached out, asking if they could get together for a quick visit.
I had to pick between being honest or being pleasant; I chose pleasant.
I made small talk over text, then bowed out on account of my having an evening meeting with a team in a different time-zone over dinner... I neglected to mention it was happening the day after.
Being honest would have required me to say that I would rather have bird flu than have to spend time with them. He's about as abrasive and unpleasant as a sandpaper colonoscopy, and she's a complete moonbat; I don't want these people knowing where I live. Apart from some personal family history grievances I have with them, they have made their brand of right-wing politics their personalities. They spread lies and conspiracy theories on social media, advise people not to get vaccines on the back of their medical qualifications massage college certificate and some homeopath training bullѕhit, and they were the most unhelpful asѕholes when the pandemic was going on. They used to invite us over for dinner but refuse to have even a couple cans of diet Pepsi on hand for my T2 diabetic father because "aspartame is poison and we don't poison friends" -- that's VERBATIM. Oh, and now they're born-against Christians too. The kind of people who turn to Jesus tend to be the sort of people who haven't done that well with everybody else, and they're a walking Exhibit A.
By comparison, bird flu sounds fuсking lovely. I don't know who the 'visit' was supposed to be for, sure as hell couldn't have been for any sort of mutual benefit.
All of this is to say that 'family' is what you make it, and someone who is a complete drag on your sanity isn't worth the time. If your brother is that, then you gotta decide how much -- if any -- limited interaction is right for you. Out of courtesy, I did ask my parents if it was a concern to them if I decided not to see those two, and they were okay with me pushing it off, but they also understand the issue because they get to deal with it too.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
Last edited by TorqueDog; 02-03-2026 at 10:01 AM.
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My crazy aunt on my dad's side and her idiot boyfriend (now husband apparently) were in town from Lethbridge last week -- no doubt because they were here for the Alberta separatist rally at Big Four -- and reached out, asking if they could get together for a quick visit.
I had to pick between being honest or being pleasant; I chose pleasant.
I made small talk over text, then bowed out on account of my having an evening meeting with a team in a different time-zone over dinner... I neglected to mention it was happening the day after.
Being honest would have required me to say that I would rather have bird flu than have to spend time with them. He's about as abrasive and unpleasant as a sandpaper colonoscopy, and she's a complete moonbat; I don't want these people knowing where I live. Apart from some personal family history grievances I have with them, they have made their brand of right-wing politics their personalities. They spread lies and conspiracy theories on social media, advise people not to get vaccines on the back of their medical qualifications massage college certificate and some homeopath training bullѕhit, and they were the most unhelpful asѕholes when the pandemic was going on. They used to invite us over for dinner but refuse to have even a couple cans of diet Pepsi on hand for my T2 diabetic father because "aspartame is poison and we don't poison friends" -- that's VERBATIM. Oh, and now they're born-against Christians too. The kind of people who turn to Jesus tend to be the sort of people who haven't done that well with everybody else, and they're a walking Exhibit A.
By comparison, bird flu sounds fuсking lovely. I don't know who the 'visit' was supposed to be for, sure as hell couldn't have been for any sort of mutual benefit.
All of this is to say that 'family' is what you make it, and someone who is a complete drag on your sanity isn't worth the time. If your brother is that, then you gotta decide how much -- if any -- limited interaction is right for you. Our of courtesy, I did ask my parents if it was a concern to them if I decided not to see those two, and they were okay with me pushing it off, but they also understand the issue because they get to deal with it too.
Holy ####. It almost sounds exactly like my brother...
Are we...are we related?
__________________
"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
I'm currently reading Doppelgänger by Naomi Klein.
It takes an interesting look at the phenomenon of what she calls the "Mirror World", a bizarre and disturbing place we have all become familiar with over the last 5 years.
I would recommend the book for anyone pondering the how and why of all this.
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My crazy aunt on my dad's side and her idiot boyfriend (now husband apparently) were in town from Lethbridge last week -- no doubt because they were here for the Alberta separatist rally at Big Four -- and reached out, asking if they could get together for a quick visit.
I had to pick between being honest or being pleasant; I chose pleasant.
I made small talk over text, then bowed out on account of my having an evening meeting with a team in a different time-zone over dinner... I neglected to mention it was happening the day after.
Being honest would have required me to say that I would rather have bird flu than have to spend time with them. He's about as abrasive and unpleasant as a sandpaper colonoscopy, and she's a complete moonbat; I don't want these people knowing where I live. Apart from some personal family history grievances I have with them, they have made their brand of right-wing politics their personalities. They spread lies and conspiracy theories on social media, advise people not to get vaccines on the back of their medical qualifications massage college certificate and some homeopath training bullѕhit, and they were the most unhelpful asѕholes when the pandemic was going on. They used to invite us over for dinner but refuse to have even a couple cans of diet Pepsi on hand for my T2 diabetic father because "aspartame is poison and we don't poison friends" -- that's VERBATIM. Oh, and now they're born-against Christians too. The kind of people who turn to Jesus tend to be the sort of people who haven't done that well with everybody else, and they're a walking Exhibit A.
By comparison, bird flu sounds fuсking lovely. I don't know who the 'visit' was supposed to be for, sure as hell couldn't have been for any sort of mutual benefit.
All of this is to say that 'family' is what you make it, and someone who is a complete drag on your sanity isn't worth the time. If your brother is that, then you gotta decide how much -- if any -- limited interaction is right for you. Our of courtesy, I did ask my parents if it was a concern to them if I decided not to see those two, and they were okay with me pushing it off, but they also understand the issue because they get to deal with it too.
Sorry to hear that you and others are going through similar issues with family and friends. I've been pretty fortunate in this regard although I have ended some long-term friendships over the last 10 years due to general toxic behavior/view points.
Regarding the bolded, I've personally found that this tends to be a commonality among the conspiracy obsessed, low-information, largely right-wing fringe. Most people that fall into the cult of the right-wing griftosphere are religious, and most of them are Christian Evangelical. There are also some left-wing loons but they tend to be the minority in my experience. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that when your entire world view is based on a belief in magic, you will be easy prey for other fantastical and exciting points of view with no basis in reality.
Moving this discussion here from the Tension in the ME thread.
I use Google Web Search vs the default search. This removes the AI result, and for a lot of searches is very generic, not tailored to personal searches, but will differ based on things like language and location. It's easy to change your default search engine. Change it to
This removes AI, and gives you verbatim results. You should be able to add a custom search to any browser. When you do a search, you will see a line under "Web" you can click the "all" to get the normal search result as well.
Reddit obviously feeds you communities you visit, even if you don't have an account(I don't). Clearing the cache is handy if you end up getting fed crap from clicking one Reddit link.
Xitter is well known to tailor for engagement, and feed you whatever Elon thinks is important to manipulate his masses. Stay off Xitter.
Bluesky can be whatever you want. The default "following" is just the people you actually follow, mostly in chronological order(I think it boosts some very active or popular posts if you also follow them). Pick reliable people and interests. It doesn't drop Elon's favourite banger of the day in there. They have a discover feed that is based on your own interests and clicks. If you use the default feed, you aren't getting algorithmicly fed stuff. You can even make your own.
I don't know or care about Facebook, but I'm sure it's probably the worst of everything.
The point is, not everything is being manipulated, but it is important to know what is, how to get around it, and what to avoid. And no, I'm not saying I'm perfect. Sometimes I post a bit rushed, or I don't care enough to verify because it's funny, or silly, or still encompasses a point, or I've just been lazy.
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Moving this discussion here from the Tension in the ME thread.
I use Google Web Search vs the default search. This removes the AI result, and for a lot of searches is very generic, not tailored to personal searches, but will differ based on things like language and location. It's easy to change your default search engine. Change it to
This removes AI, and gives you verbatim results. You should be able to add a custom search to any browser. When you do a search, you will see a line under "Web" you can click the "all" to get the normal search result as well.
Reddit obviously feeds you communities you visit, even if you don't have an account(I don't). Clearing the cache is handy if you end up getting fed crap from clicking one Reddit link.
Xitter is well known to tailor for engagement, and feed you whatever Elon thinks is important to manipulate his masses. Stay off Xitter.
Bluesky can be whatever you want. The default "following" is just the people you actually follow, mostly in chronological order(I think it boosts some very active or popular posts if you also follow them). Pick reliable people and interests. It doesn't drop Elon's favourite banger of the day in there. They have a discover feed that is based on your own interests and clicks. If you use the default feed, you aren't getting algorithmicly fed stuff. You can even make your own.
I don't know or care about Facebook, but I'm sure it's probably the worst of everything.
The point is, not everything is being manipulated, but it is important to know what is, how to get around it, and what to avoid. And no, I'm not saying I'm perfect. Sometimes I post a bit rushed, or I don't care enough to verify because it's funny, or silly, or still encompasses a point, or I've just been lazy.
Wait, how about CP? Why did I see this post?
__________________
"9 out of 10 concerns are completely unfounded."
"The first thing that goes when you lose your hands, are your fine motor skills."
The best way to avoid misinformation is to get your news from mainstream media outlets. Places that have editors and ombudsmen, and can be sued for libel. CBC, BBC, Globe & Mail, the Economist, NPR, the Guardian, National Post, Reuters.
When you cast your net in the waters of hyper-partisan X/Bluesky personalities and bathrobe-wearing bloggers, you're going to dredge up all sorts dubious ####.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Yeah there's never any dubious #### that has come from the mainstream media. Fear of lawsuit is also comical, America's most mainstream news source, FOX News, has been sued and paid out hundreds of millions and still are a massive disinfo source. It's not a real fear when you have deep pockets. And, as we know, more and more legacy/mainstream media are being consolidated and purchased by the wealthy to help control narratives.
So the real answer is to of course seek out a multitude of sources and never rely on just one. But even the most credible looking sources will lie to you, for whatever their reasons may be. In reality, trust the words of the great prophet Stone Cold Steve Austin: DTA...Don't Trust Anybody.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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Yeah there's never any dubious #### that has come from the mainstream media. Fear of lawsuit is also comical, America's most mainstream news source, FOX News, has been sued and paid out hundreds of millions and still are a massive disinfo source. It's not a real fear when you have deep pockets. And, as we know, more and more legacy/mainstream media are being consolidated and purchased by the wealthy to help control narratives.
So the real answer is to of course seek out a multitude of sources and never rely on just one. But even the most credible looking sources will lie to you, for whatever their reasons may be. In reality, trust the words of the great prophet Stone Cold Steve Austin: DTA...Don't Trust Anybody.
Yeah there's never any dubious #### that has come from the mainstream media. Fear of lawsuit is also comical, America's most mainstream news source, FOX News, has been sued and paid out hundreds of millions and still are a massive disinfo source. It's not a real fear when you have deep pockets. And, as we know, more and more legacy/mainstream media are being consolidated and purchased by the wealthy to help control narratives.
So the real answer is to of course seek out a multitude of sources and never rely on just one. But even the most credible looking sources will lie to you, for whatever their reasons may be. In reality, trust the words of the great prophet Stone Cold Steve Austin: DTA...Don't Trust Anybody.
Yeah, “mainstream media” outlets is too broad a category to convey legitimacy anymore. Especially when those that self-identify as entertainment or primarily push opinion columns are counted among them. Even among mainstream media there exists examples where a heavy bias exists on certain topics, so while the information may be true, the framing of that information may be heavily slanted.
What actually matters is practicing media literacy, regardless of the source. All the time people share things without any attempt to verify whether it’s true or not, which can be OK if they acknowledge that they aren’t sure about the truth of the claims, but in that case there should still be some basic verification that the source is at least moderately trustworthy.
Some people are just happy sharing Fox News and NP opinion columns without a second thought. Some people will share the first thing they see regardless of the source just because it’s “the top result in Google” (not always bad, but sometimes it is). Others get legitimately annoyed if you “shoot the messenger” or “attack the source” instead of the “content” without ever recognizing that the source actually matters. All of these attitudes contribute to the spread of misinformation.
And it’s cool that some people like making it their raison d'ętre when it suits them or when it’s something they disagree with, but there are a few bad actors here who are extremely guilty of it themselves, so those people should probably worry about their own backyard a bit unless they want to continue being treated like a complete joke.
Yeah there's never any dubious #### that has come from the mainstream media. Fear of lawsuit is also comical, America's most mainstream news source, FOX News, has been sued and paid out hundreds of millions and still are a massive disinfo source. It's not a real fear when you have deep pockets. And, as we know, more and more legacy/mainstream media are being consolidated and purchased by the wealthy to help control narratives.
I didn't include Fox in my list. You'll find bias to one degree or another in every one of those outlets - usually by framing and context. But you won't find outright assertions of things that are not factually true. Which is what misinformation is.
You can get a wide ranged of factual (if biased) information from mainstream media. If you choose instead to wade into the fever swamps of freelance social media personalities, don't be surprised if you come away with outright lies and misinformation.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 03-10-2026 at 01:04 PM.
You know you can follow the actual reporters on Bluesky that write the stories for reputable organizations, right? And sometimes the people doing the best work aren't part of a single organization, but have their reporting occasionally featured in multiple different ones, so if you trust the journalist, you can find their stuff more easily.
I find the people who most loudly #### on Bluesky have zero idea how it actually works, and just assume it's Xitter for the far left, because they can't possibly imagine something that doesn't exist as a "both sides" conversation.
Special recognition to Calgarygeologist, who, even after I moved the conversation to avoid further derailment, couldn't find their way here. Should we setup a beacon? No, wait, it's better without them.
