Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[para transit fellow]

Spread thin: How urban sprawl is stretching Calgary Transit to the max

https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/calgar...t-urban-sprawl

In 2009, city hall set a 60-year goal of 3.7 transit service hours per capita, up from a baseline of 2.2. But this number has gone down, not up, as the city grows both in size and population—sliding from 2.4 service hours per capita in 2011 to 1.8 in 2024.

[Jimmy Stang]

^ Included in that is a small bit about the free fare zone, which narrowly survived council's axe and appears to be hanging on by a thread.

The city estimates that if the free fare zone was to be eliminated, 75% of people would stop utilizing it, but that 25% would pay $4 to go a few blocks downtown, resulting in an increase in revenue. I think that's very optimistic.

Without distanced-based fares, and perhaps even with, I think that the unintended consequence would be more desolate stations downtown, which would actually increase "social disorder" because there will be considerably fewer "good" people on the platforms and trains downtown. Higher levels of pedestrian traffic is a proven, effective crime deterrent.

[Weitz]

Not a chance in the world 25% will pay $4 to go a couple blocks.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Spread thin: How urban sprawl is stretching Calgary Transit to the max

https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/calgar...t-urban-sprawl

Is there more here? Because you'd have to be a Grade A Moron to think about setting a 60-year goal.

This City changes so fast even a 5-10 year goal or plan is overly ambitious.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Not a chance in the world 25% will pay $4 to go a couple blocks.

To be fair, part of the argument against the free fare zone is that people would just walk, increasing pedestrian traffic, healthier, etc. which is also true. But it isn't like the train is door to door - free fare zone users are also pedestrians on the street and in the +15.

But I still think that far fewer than 25% of people would continue to use it downtown if they had to pay a full fare.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

To be fair, part of the argument against the free fare zone is that people would just walk, increasing pedestrian traffic, healthier, etc. which is also true. But it isn't like the train is door to door - free fare zone users are also pedestrians on the street and in the +15.

But I still think that far fewer than 25% of people would continue to use it downtown if they had to pay a full fare.

Wasnt there something about TD sponsoring the Free Fare Zone and they just recently bailed?

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Locke

Wasnt there something about TD sponsoring the Free Fare Zone and they just recently bailed?

Yep - they pulled out two years early, which is unfortunate. I don't believe that there was any sponsorship prior to the recent TD thing.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Yep - they pulled out two years early, which is unfortunate. I don't believe that there was any sponsorship prior to the recent TD thing.

So whats the scoop there? They need a sponsor for the 'Free Fare Zone' or it becomes a regular fare zone? Because that seems like a bad idea as people aren't going to pay to go a few blocks.

Why did TD bail? And if there was no sponsorship before...is it really required? I'm sure the cash influx is nice to have but is it critical to maintaining the free fare zone?

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Locke

So whats the scoop there? They need a sponsor for the 'Free Fare Zone' or it becomes a regular fare zone? Because that seems like a bad idea as people aren't going to pay to go a few blocks.

Why did TD bail? And if there was no sponsorship before...is it really required? I'm sure the cash influx is nice to have but is it critical to maintaining the free fare zone?

That's the issue - they've lost the "sponsorship" revenue, but now seem to be seeing the free fare zone as a cost that needs to be recovered through fares.

I see it the other way. The trains are running through there anyway, it is a value-added thing for downtown workers and tourists. Taking it away does not mean that those riders will suddenly become fare payers and recover the loss of sponsorship revenue - they'll just find a different mode or not make those cross-downtown trips.

One of those "we know the cost, but not the value" sort of things.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Not a chance in the world 25% will pay $4 to go a couple blocks.

If you're riding from city hall to 7 St, sure it doesn't make sense 25% would now choose to pay...

But maybe it discourages free-loaders riding from Victoria Park or Sunnyside to 7 St to actually start paying now that there's potential increase in fare enforcement?

[getbak]

Free Fare Zone Survey: https://www.calgarytransit.com/plans...ne-survey.html

[Wormius]

Who's stupid idea is it to cut the free-fare zone?

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Who's stupid idea is it to cut the free-fare zone?

*Whose

The free fare zone is a big argument for why we don't have fare gates at all stations, which cascades to why we don't have distance/zone based fares.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by jwslam

*Whose

The free fare zone is a big argument for why we don't have fare gates at all stations, which cascades to why we don't have distance/zone based fares.

None of those things are related.

[Amethyst]

Who is actually using the free fare zone as intended?

People who use the train without paying, just to stay warm, are not just riding back and forth along downtown.

Business people who are moving around downtown, except in very specific circumstances, would still have to walk part of the way or they are driving, taking a taxi/uber all the way.

It doesn't go to the stampede grounds, so those who are going to something there either need to cheat it an extra stop or pay anyway.

The only argument I've heard in favour that makes any sense to me is that if more people using the train are at the stations downtown, it's less appealing for people using them as places to use drugs, camp out, etc. and makes it safer. So I could be convinced if that was actually (or likely) the case.

Otherwise, why is it free downtown, but I pay full price to go one stop or take a 5 minute bus ride, anywhere else in the city?

[Fuzz]

I used to use it all the time to get to lunch places and meetings

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by jwslam

The free fare zone is a big argument for why we don't have fare gates at all stations, which cascades to why we don't have distance/zone based fares.

I would say with the My Fare app you don't need gates. Have distance based fares, start it when you get on the train or bus and stop it when you get off. Past a certain distance it will max out at the $4 fare. I know there are times in my community where I might end up driving, but if I could get on the bus for $1- that might be an option.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would say with the My Fare app you don't need gates. Have distance based fares, start it when you get on the train or bus and stop it when you get off. Past a certain distance it will max out at the $4 fare. I know there are times in my community where I might end up driving, but if I could get on the bus for $1- that might be an option.

getting on the bus for $1 has a reverse challenge.

Once you are on the bus/ train... how does anyone ensure you don't overstay your ride and take the bus all the way to the end of the line?

would it cost more to implement than the $1 would cover?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

getting on the bus for $1 has a reverse challenge.

Once you are on the bus/ train... how does anyone ensure you don't overstay your ride and take the bus all the way to the end of the line?

would it cost more to implement than the $1 would cover?

It only works with tap on/tap off systems.

If you tap on and then don't tap off you pay the max fare. If you tap off the next stop you pay $1 or whatever

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

It only works with tap on/tap off systems.

If you tap on and then don't tap off you pay the max fare. If you tap off the next stop you pay $1 or whatever

This is what I want. I live in Saddleridge and used to work in Falconridge. I couldn't take transit all the time, so a monthly pass wasn't worth it. If I could have taken transit sometimes for $1, I absolutely would have done it. But to pay full fare both ways, it was more expensive than driving, so I drove every day.