You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Puked in my garbage can a few hours ago. My wife and the chiro (I know troutman) recommended it.

Had a couple Aleves this morning and totally worked but I was nauseous all morning. Started to seem to wear off so I had two more before lunch, feeling grosser. In a zoom meeting to go over this boring list of sites with this guy to buy down for power service we are not using. So in the middle, I tell him, sorry I think I am gonna puke. So he got to watch me puke in my garbage can on camera. So I did that 7 times and told him we have to re-schedule. That was embarrassing.

Do you have acid reflux or gerd? If so, get some Vimovo from your doctor. They are coated, and include esomeprazole to help with the acid reflux. it's one of the few I can take.


Oh, I guess it doesn't exist anymore, but they have a generic. Get that. 4 Aleve's is way too much.

Do not exceed more than 2 tablets, caplets, gelcaps or liquid gels in 12 hours, and do not exceed 3 tablets, caplets, gelcaps or liquid gels in 24 hours. The smallest effective dose should be used. Drink a full glass of water with each dose.

https://www.aleve.com/frequently-asked-questions-dosage


I'd probably pick physio over chiro, but that's me.

[fotze2]

Physio is a whole delayed process. I needed something immediately ang got in 30 minutes. Have a bit of reflux, so i will take omeprazole if i know im having onions later. Its lava time. The wife saw i threw out the jarlic and asked, vile crap. If i snuck in beef into food shed be livid but vegetarian is a legit preference, not garlic apparently". Mouth full of stomache lava at night. I think thats why i hate garlic now. Try avoiding that. Its in everything.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Our local high school is closed today while police investigate a threat. Can’t help but think this is someone spring boarding off of the tragedy in BC… maybe it’s not, either way, people are ####ing sick.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Physio is a whole delayed process. I needed something immediately ang got in 30 minutes. Have a bit of reflux, so i will take omeprazole if i know im having onions later. Its lava time. The wife saw i threw out the jarlic and asked, vile crap. If i snuck in beef into food shed be livid but vegetarian is a legit preference, not garlic apparently". Mouth full of stomache lava at night. I think thats why i hate garlic now. Try avoiding that. Its in everything.

Physio is longer term intentions with some short term help. Chiro, massage, needling etc. is more short term help with less longer term intentions. You'll need and want a balance of both.

Stomach wise, are you taking probiotics by any chance? I don't ascribe to the gut biome stuff as aggressively as some others do, but sometimes if your stomach as been agitated, probiotic pills for a few days can help to kickstart a recovery. I don't take it regularly, but I start taking it a few day before and during travels or after agitating my stomach with extra spicy food or whatnot.

Just be careful you aren't patching up a stomach/reflux issue for too long and miss real indicators that it's something worse. If you have such issues more than a few times a month within two months without a specific and non-general food trigger, go get it checked out.

I had a stress ulcer before. It sucked. But it was confirmed it was a stress ulcer and nothing more. An acquaintance of a friend thought similarly and reportedly "occasionally" took OTC medication for half a year or so. By the time he got it checked out with the doctor, he discovered it was actually cancer and he ended up passing away in his 30s from it a few months later. I heard similar stories about a friend's cousin, so a few of my friends had rushed out to get it checked because it seemed like they might be genetically predisposed to having similar types of illnesses.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Physio is longer term intentions with some short term help. Chiro, massage, needling etc. is more short term help with less longer term intentions. You'll need and want a balance of both.

Stomach wise, are you taking probiotics by any chance? I don't ascribe to the gut biome stuff as aggressively as some others do, but sometimes if your stomach as been agitated, probiotic pills for a few days can help to kickstart a recovery. I don't take it regularly, but I start taking it a few day before and during travels or after agitating my stomach with extra spicy food or whatnot.

Just be careful you aren't patching up a stomach/reflux issue for too long and miss real indicators that it's something worse. If you have such issues more than a few times a month within two months without a specific and non-general food trigger, go get it checked out.

I had a stress ulcer before. It sucked. But it was confirmed it was a stress ulcer and nothing more. An acquaintance of a friend thought similarly and reportedly "occasionally" took OTC medication for half a year or so. By the time he got it checked out with the doctor, he discovered it was actually cancer and he ended up passing away in his 30s from it a few months later. I heard similar stories about a friend's cousin, so a few of my friends had rushed out to get it checked because it seemed like they might be genetically predisposed to having similar types of illnesses.

the science behind Chiro is sketchy

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

the science behind Chiro is sketchy

No argument from me, but anecdotally I can say I once thought it was snake oil and quackery, but had my mind changed.

I was seeking solutions to neck pain I'd had since falling down a flight of stairs in college (oddly sober at the time). My regular guy would do the stuff you would expect with chiro, and it neither got better nor worse.

One day he was out, and I got the "head" guy. He was a former marine and ripped. He asked picked me up by my head, tucked on of my elbows in, and I heard and felt a quiet "click". He said "wow, that was really subtle", and it literally "cured" me.

So in my experience - if you get the right person and they do the right thing - yeah, there's something there.

A month later the place closed down and the head guy went to jail for fraud, so unfortunately (?) I never got to go back for other injuries.

[woob]

Waking up at 5am to go to the washroom, and your brain switches on and won't shut off. Got a bunch of crap going on right now, and of course what better time to think about it all at 5am in the morning.

[surferguy]

^^While that sucks, at least the Olympics are on and you can watch random live sports.

I don’t love the European venues for the games as once we wake up all the news is done and you don’t get a majority of watching the drama in real time.

Tough to stay away from headlines

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

No argument from me, but anecdotally I can say I once thought it was snake oil and quackery, but had my mind changed.

I was seeking solutions to neck pain I'd had since falling down a flight of stairs in college (oddly sober at the time). My regular guy would do the stuff you would expect with chiro, and it neither got better nor worse.

One day he was out, and I got the "head" guy. He was a former marine and ripped. He asked picked me up by my head, tucked on of my elbows in, and I heard and felt a quiet "click". He said "wow, that was really subtle", and it literally "cured" me.

So in my experience - if you get the right person and they do the right thing - yeah, there's something there.

A month later the place closed down and the head guy went to jail for fraud, so unfortunately (?) I never got to go back for other injuries.

The one thing I've heard from real doctors is that if you ever do decide you want to see a chiro, don't ever let them touch your neck, it's just too risky. Did you go to physio, and not have any luck with it?

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

the science behind Chiro is sketchy

No. It is absolutely not. Some of the more wild claims? Maybe. Straightup, scope of practice it has been extensively studied.

I won't go into it because you guys don't want to here it but it is effective when done properly.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Titan2

No. It is absolutely not. Some of the more wild claims? Maybe. Straightup, scope of practice it has been extensively studied.

I won't go into it because you guys don't want to here it but it is effective when done properly.

I am happy to read some evidence.

One of my best mates is a Chiro.

I haven't seen it.

If a Chiro is effective it is usually because they had slid into the more of the physio approach and away from traditional Bone cracking

[woob]

The chiros I've been to have always been chiro and physio approaches. I've politely declined any offer to do anything with my neck. But I have made embarrasing sounds when having my back cracked. Regardless of the science or potential negative impact, that sh1t just feels good.

I have't been to a chiro in years though.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The one thing I've heard from real doctors is that if you ever do decide you want to see a chiro, don't ever let them touch your neck, it's just too risky. Did you go to physio, and not have any luck with it?

Again. Simply wrong. A 'real' doctor does not specialize in musculoskeletal issues, nor deals with that all day everyday.

I will say this once again but the non-chiro courses at CMCC were taught by the professors from the U of T medical school. Why would they associate with them if it was quakery?

Most of the objections are based on malinformed people that either have an agenda or are biased in some other way.

The risk of stroke is more predicated by the pre-existing comorbidities of the patient. Of course, a copetent chiro will discuss your history to ensure you do not possess those before treating a neck. The force of a manipulaton is relatively minimal. Studies were done on cadaver where they tried to dissect a nerve and it could not be done at the force levels of a typical treatment. Most manipulations are moving mm, not inches.

It is an accepted treatment practice around the world and recognized by governments and has proven effective for millions of patients. Maybe, just maybe, family docs are biased because if someone goes to a chiro, they won't get meds from the doc. Kind of a conflict of interest. Why do sports med docs and surgeons work side by side and refer back and forth here in Calgary? At MRU, the sports medicine doctors who work with the athletes are in constant discussion with my wife on the most effective treatment. Most Chiros have a 4-year degree and an extended 5-year post-degree program. Who does that sound like? Docs? Yep?. Physios? Not even close. Why would anyone allow a physio to manipulate a neck when they have taken a weekend course or two vs. 5 years of training?

Ahhh... you guys sucked me in. It just pisses me off that people lack respect for something that deserves it. My wife had straight A's out of her undergrad and could have done anything she wanted. She wanted to help people. And does, every day for 28 years. Would we be better off if she became a surgeon or dentist? Absolutely. Does she have any regrets? None.

I asked her why these topics don't piss her off. She said the primary reason is that she helps people all day, every day. She sees the relief she provides to her patients on a constant basis. Her thought is that if you don't 'believe' (No, it is not a religion!) then enjoy your condition. She is busy helping others who want help.

This forum is this forum, but we don't seem to attack any other profession here. It gets frustrating as I like the place and most of the people here.

Anyways, walking away now.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Again. Simply wrong. A 'real' doctor does not specialize in musculoskeletal issues, nor deals with that all day everyday.

I will say this once again but the non-chiro courses at CMCC were taught by the professors from the U of T medical school. Why would they associate with them if it was quakery?

Most of the objections are based on malinformed people that either have an agenda or are biased in some other way.

The risk of stroke is more predicated by the pre-existing comorbidities of the patient. Of course, a copetent chiro will discuss your history to ensure you do not possess those before treating a neck. The force of a manipulaton is relatively minimal. Studies were done on cadaver where they tried to dissect a nerve and it could not be done at the force levels of a typical treatment. Most manipulations are moving mm, not inches.

It is an accepted treatment practice around the world and recognized by governments and has proven effective for millions of patients. Maybe, just maybe, family docs are biased because if someone goes to a chiro, they won't get meds from the doc. Kind of a conflict of interest. Why do sports med docs and surgeons work side by side and refer back and forth here in Calgary? At MRU, the sports medicine doctors who work with the athletes are in constant discussion with my wife on the most effective treatment. Most Chiros have a 4-year degree and an extended 5-year post-degree program. Who does that sound like? Docs? Yep?. Physios? Not even close. Why would anyone allow a physio to manipulate a neck when they have taken a weekend course or two vs. 5 years of training?

Ahhh... you guys sucked me in. It just pisses me off that people lack respect for something that deserves it. My wife had straight A's out of her undergrad and could have done anything she wanted. She wanted to help people. And does, every day for 28 years. Would we be better off if she became a surgeon or dentist? Absolutely. Does she have any regrets? None.

I asked her why these topics don't piss her off. She said the primary reason is that she helps people all day, every day. She sees the relief she provides to her patients on a constant basis. Her thought is that if you don't 'believe' (No, it is not a religion!) then enjoy your condition. She is busy helping others who want help.

This forum is this forum, but we don't seem to attack any other profession here. It gets frustrating as I like the place and most of the people here.

Anyways, walking away now.

False! Teachers take a beating every few months here. And don't get me started on politicians. And Uber drivers. And lawyers. And accountants...and...


are you new here?

[Titan2]

oops. Accidental double post.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

False! Teachers take a beating every few months here. And don't get me started on politicians. And Uber drivers. And lawyers. And accountants...and...


are you new here?

True. Some days I feel like I am new here.

Politicians are not professionals! I wonder if they are human sometimes.

Teachers, there is a spirited debate of their value but no one disputes what they do or their personal morality and there are many on both sides. Even those on the con side generally support them as professionals and people.

Lawyers, whatever. Everybody hates lawyers until they need one of us. That is par for the course.

Accountants. Seriously? I do math and fly helicopters. Look at me. La de daa.

Obviously tongue in cheek, and you are correct. But there does not seem to be the same level of vitriol or discounting of chiro's actual education and contributions. Nobody calls the other professions quacks.

[Shazam]

Osteopaths in most places are quacks.

The chiro industry has a lot of quacks. If you don't like it remove the quacks.

Oh and naturopaths. There, a more vilified profession that's like 100% quacks. In BC they can prescribe drugs.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am happy to read some evidence.

One of my best mates is a Chiro.

I haven't seen it.

If a Chiro is effective it is usually because they had slid into the more of the physio approach and away from traditional Bone cracking

I would never go to any chiro that bases the vast majority of their approach with approaches that would not be indistinguishable from that of a physio. I basically want someone who is basically a physio that can give me short term relief but also analyze and tell me what to focus on long term without me pointing out exactly what I think is wrong for them to focus on.

My chiro buddy basically describes it as, the basic level chiropractic stuff is typically similar techniques not too dissimilar to what you'd find as scientifically supported for physiotherapy and other therapies that target the physical systems of the body (massage and other wise). There's usually few disagreements at this point.

Mid level chiropractic stuff also have scientific analysis. However, the mid level stuff is the adjustment and manipulations that often and usually have scientific analysis that is either inconclusive, or warns about evaluating whether the risk vs reward of these techniques, with a heavy emphasis of, "If in doubt, don't do it.". This is where things start to get grey.

Ignoring improper execution... Some people will try many things and the popping and relief they get from adjustments and manipulation in chiro is one of very few things that they claim will offer benefit. Others might objectively show that there is no conclusive evidence that the mid level chiropractic stuff is offering a benefit. Bringing improper execution of techniques back into the equation, due to the risk of type of injury vs the possibility of no conclusive evidence of benefit, it's perhaps more preferable to consider chiropractic medicine as a last resort and to recommend investigating other disciplines for similar types of relief before choosing chiropractic therapy.

Fringe level stuff... yeah it's basically scientifically proven to be wrong. Not inconclusive, just wrong. The majority of chiros will actually agree that it's bunk. Adjustment/manipulation give opportunities for physical relief. It doesn't do anything for healing illnesses. I think the biggest issue is that chiros do not do enough to completely disassociate themselves with people like this, as other medical professions may do when fringe ideas pop up in their medical disciplines (ie: Pharmacy vs Ivermectin).


I trust my buddy that I grew up with who is a chiro. But... he started his training in physiotherapy and sports medicine before continuing into chiropractic medicine at U of T. He also went to the same rigors (if not higher) as other physiotherapists out there before he was allowed to to do adjustments and manipulations on me as a chiro. The primary rigor he succeeded in, was objectively diagnosing my physical ailments and coming up with his own conclusion, relying on my input to increase the depth of his assessment and not revise it. Another is that I occasionally request alternatives to parallel or replace the original treatment to see how they react. I've only met one or two physios that can do that to the level I am happy with. Someone who is truly good is often intrigued with a request like that and open to immediately exploring the concept (within reason), even if it doesn't ultimately change the original diagnosis. This rather than the majority I've met that get uncomfortable/disregards the idea until their original treatment is applied first and evaluated things at the next appointment. I usually go to people like this 3 times total for the benefit of the doubt and then stop because my belief is confirmed.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

False! Teachers take a beating every few months here. And don't get me started on politicians. And Uber drivers. And lawyers. And accountants...and...


are you new here?

and dentists

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

False! Teachers take a beating every few months here. And don't get me started on politicians. And Uber drivers. And lawyers. And accountants...and...


are you new here?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=157717


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