[News] Gavin McKenna facing charges for assault UPD: felony charge withdrawn

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It’s more directed at the adults who think this is a normal and healthy way to respond. I don’t really think he should be facing any career punishments due to an altercation like this. Kids make mistakes, often they are quite dumb mistakes. We’ve all seen it.

But grown ups who think this is actually an appropriate way to handle the situation? ####ing embarrassing.

Who said that?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Man… people who need to be physically violent because someone said some mean words are the biggest embarrassments out there. So damn soft. Just move on. They are words. Don’t be a complete baby.

That being said it’s pretty nieve to think it’s not going to happen periodically.

Life’s not always a masterpiece.

[Flames_F.T.W]

I don't condone violence and would never personally resort to violence over words or name calling... But I also don't feel bad for people who get beat up for calling someone's mom a whore.

[PepsiFree]

Yeah I think a bunch of things can all be true at the same time:
- It’s completely dumb, immature, and dangerous to get into a fist fight
- Fist fights, especially where alcohol is involved, are common occurrences
- Anyone who says they’d punch someone for talking about their mom is a bit of an idiot
- Someone who says stuff like we assume this victim said to McKenna arguably deserves whatever comes to them, brought it on themselves, or isn’t worthy of sympathy

[Wastedyouth]

Nvm.

[Yeah_Baby]

this is plea deal written all over it

[blankall]

The devil is really in the details here, a lot which we do not not know yet. Things could swing either way, based on what actually happened here.

Most people here aren't condoning violence. I do think it lessens culpability if someone has been provoked, as does the law, which allows for lighter sentences for people who have been provoked into violence.

I'm reserving judgement until I actually see what happened. If the guy was waiting outside, after being thrown out of the bar, and physically approached McKenna in an aggressive manner, I'd say McKenna's actions were likely totally justified. Obviously, they become less justified as the other party's actions become less aggressive.

I am pretty alarmed by the extent of the injuries here. Although maybe McKenna just throws a mean punch, and people shouldn't pick fights with soon to be professional athletes?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah I think a bunch of things can all be true at the same time:
- It’s completely dumb, immature, and dangerous to get into a fist fight
- Fist fights, especially where alcohol is involved, are common occurrences
- Anyone who says they’d punch someone for talking about their mom is a bit of an idiot
- Someone who says stuff like we assume this victim said to McKenna arguably deserves whatever comes to them, brought it on themselves, or isn’t worthy of sympathy

I don't know if I'd call it common, when compared to the amount of people who actively participate in life and drinking without fist fighting.

I do agree though I would add to your final point that:

- Some people deserve to be hit. Some people NEED to be hit. But that doesn't mean hitting them is a good choice. It's stupid, not because they don't deserve it, but because a lot of bad can happen that goes far beyond a black eye and a hard lesson.

- Really, the types of people that randomly hurl insults to people (teenagers and women especially), are bound to be left with very few expel that give a crap about them or want to be around them.

- I also wonder about provocation vs self-defence. Like, if a guy is coming towards you, challenging you and insulting your mother or wife or whatever, is that behaviour aggressive enough that hitting them is considered defending yourself? Do you actually have to wait for some clown to strike you before it's self-defence?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

The devil is really in the details here, a lot which we do not not know yet. Things could swing either way, based on what actually happened here.

Most people here aren't condoning violence. I do think it lessens culpability if someone has been provoked, as does the law, which allows for lighter sentences for people who have been provoked into violence.

I'm reserving judgement until I actually see what happened. If the guy was waiting outside, after being thrown out of the bar, and physically approached McKenna in an aggressive manner, I'd say McKenna's actions were likely totally justified. Obviously, they become less justified as the other party's actions become less aggressive.

I am pretty alarmed by the extent of the injuries here. Although maybe McKenna just throws a mean punch, and people shouldn't pick fights with soon to be professional athletes?

Exactly, there are several different scenarios that could have played out. Just because someone on the internet said the guy called his mom a whore doesn't make it case closed. There were probably a sequence of things and escalations that occurred before McKenna laid the guy out. We don't know who the first mover was, and in the end it might not matter that much.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If this was the law, the consequences would be unimaginable.

Just be clear, that was my point. There are a few posts in this thread, including the one I replied to, that seemed to think that resorting to violence was a totally normal response to name calling.


Obviously we don’t know all the details of this particular case and I’m sure we could all imagine a scenario where a threat was sufficient to require a physical response to protect one’s family. But I think we can all agree that someone calling your mom a whore does not meet that threshold.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

this is plea deal written all over it

Yeah probably. Probably drop it down to something that won't alter his ability to be a pro-hockey player, dude will probably sue McKenna and they'll settle out of court.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by metroneck

‘Power of words’ does not excuse inappropriate response.

Society has deemed punching someone in the face because of what they said inappropriate, by making it a chargeable offence.

Regardless if we are mature adults or dumba$$ teenagers, we are all responsible for our reactions.

Mixing in booze or other favours is irrelevant.

I disagree the addition of alcohol or party favors is irrelevant. Anything that lessens cognitive ability to think rationally in a tense situation always always .... Always leads to shortened fuses.

I don't disagree that everyone is responsible for their actions in the end, but I've read alot in this thread from posters who think we are evolved enough to not give into our survival instincts. Which I do disagree with. I've made a lot of money babysitting drunk adults and teenagers, it's not so easy to just wash it all away under "we have rules, we are evolved not to fight anymore".

[fotze2]

He wasn't 'drinking".

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

this is plea deal written all over it

I will put my money on prosecutorial discretion, and all charges dropped.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

-Many/most men have an extra protective gear when it concerns their mothers, and rightfully so. Moms are amazing

-Don't want to risk getting hit? Don't verbally abuse someone's mom in front of them and their family, and then circle back when given the opportunity to call it a night

-It's understandable to lack sympathy for anybody that lacks that basic level of common sense

-The above aside, we can still call it a bad decision, but one we're happy to write off if it's a one time incident

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by blankall

Most people here aren't condoning violence. I do think it lessens culpability if someone has been provoked, as does the law, which allows for lighter sentences for people who have been provoked into violence.

I'm not sure provocation is taken into account to the extent you think it is. I am pretty sure it does not form a defence. However, it could be taken into account when determining whether the accused had a reasonable belief that they were under physical threat and needed to defend themselves. I can't envision a scenario where provocation would alone justify violence without the fear of being assaulted. Unfortunately, it tends to bleed into the freedom-of-speech issue.

[The EBUG's EBUG]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

-The above aside, we can still call it a bad decision, but one we're happy to write off if it's a one time incident

Conversation at the combine should be: "What did we learn from this?...So we're not going to do this again right?....Perfect, lets keep that same willingness to be protective with your teammates."

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Titan2

I'm not sure provocation is taken into account to the extent you think it is. I am pretty sure it does not form a defence. However, it could be taken into account when determining whether the accused had a reasonable belief that they were under physical threat and needed to defend themselves. I can't envision a scenario where provocation would alone justify violence without the fear of being assaulted. Unfortunately, it tends to bleed into the freedom-of-speech issue.

Provocation is taken into account during sentencing.

For me, a lot of how I perceive this incident will depend on how they came to be in close physical contact. If the guy is being an ass but keeping his distance, this makes McKenna's actions worse. If the guy is the one who approaches McKenna, it makes his actions more understandable.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by blankall

Provocation is taken into account during sentencing.

For me, a lot of how I perceive this incident will depend on how they came to be in close physical contact. If the guy is being an ass but keeping his distance, this makes McKenna's actions worse. If the guy is the one who approaches McKenna, it makes his actions more understandable.

Correct. The more the victim approached McKenna aggressively , the more likely McKenna can make out a case for self defence. But McKenna would need to believe he (or his family) was in imminent physical danger.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Titan2

I will put my money on prosecutorial discretion, and all charges dropped.

With a broken jaw, I doubt this unless McKenna clearly has a case of self defence.

Like with all court cases, it will turn on the actual facts, of which we really don’t know.