Fortress Mountain Mega Project?

[puffnstuff]

I can remember when a lift ticket was $19 and then being so mad when they raised it all the way up to $21

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by surferguy

How could he ever afford to fix that place up…

He intentionally let Fortress and Wintergreen fail because they competed with Nakiska (and Fortress to some degree competed with Lake Louise which RCR owned at the time). Keep nearly all the same customers but only pay expenses for two resorts instead of four.

Originally Posted by nfotiu

The runs were short, but those 4-5 runs off the Canadian chair were some of the best fall line mogul runs around. I spent half a dozen years as a Skimeister, and got to be a pretty strong mogul skier just doing those runs over and over. I thought they were about the perfect length to non stop and then recover on the chair which you could often hop right on. I'd have some burning legs after those days.

I always thought it was great as a local place for good Calgary skiers though. Turning it into a destination resort wouldn't be the same.

In my mind's eye the runs are a lot shorter than they probably are...I picture Wawa and Wolverine chairs, but the Fortress lifts are a fair bit bigger:

Backside was same length as Standish with 30 meters more vert, so slightly steeper less flat.

Canadian Triple (frontside) was similar vert to old Knob chair (steeper) and Eagle Ridge chair (less steep) at Marmot.

Farside double doesn't really have any nearby comps...it's got 335m of vert compared to CAD Triple's 274.

Of course the new lifts look to be a fair bit bigger...didn't see any vert stats from whipping through the plan though.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

He intentionally let Fortress and Wintergreen fail because they competed with Nakiska (and Fortress to some degree competed with Lake Louise which RCR owned at the time). Keep nearly all the same customers but only pay expenses for two resorts instead of four.



In my mind's eye the runs are a lot shorter than they probably are...I picture Wawa and Wolverine chairs, but the Fortress lifts are a fair bit bigger:

Backside was same length as Standish with 30 meters more vert, so slightly steeper less flat.

Canadian Triple (frontside) was similar vert to old Knob chair (steeper) and Eagle Ridge chair (less steep) at Marmot.

Farside double doesn't really have any nearby comps...it's got 335m of vert compared to CAD Triple's 274.

Of course the new lifts look to be a fair bit bigger...didn't see any vert stats from whipping through the plan though.

Username checks out.

[Barnet Flame]

You were a brave person skiing down Watch Me on a school ski trip, it either went very well (rarely), or there'd be hilarity from the chairlift.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by troutman

Whistler is now $300 for a day pass.

I took my daughter skiing at COP last weekend. For a 4 hour ski pass for the two of us, and renting skis for her, our total was something around $180. I know it's not Whistler expensive, and we had a nice time, but man, that just felt crazy to me for 4 hours at COP. If I my wife and other kid came, it would've been closer to $400.

The next day we went skating as a family at the Oval. For 4 of us, we paid $18.50.

Skating at the Oval is such a killer deal. World-class ice, totally affordable, minimal equipment needed (skates and helmet...cheap at Decathlon), and perhaps the best part, a quick in and out so you don't have to dedicate your whole day to it.

[Table 5]

Btw the Oval is such a great legacy of the 88 Olympics. Pisses me off that we voted the current one down...sure would've been nice to upgrade some of the existing infrastructure or get new ones.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Btw the Oval is such a great legacy of the 88 Olympics. Pisses me off that we voted the current one down...sure would've been nice to upgrade some of the existing infrastructure or get new ones.

Yeah. Then we (taxpayers) paid for a new arena anyway.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

That doesn't sound so bad to me for 8000 skiable acres vs spending $150USD for my kid to go to our crappy little VA ski hill with 129 acres of manmade snow.

Also, avid skier would be getting Epic passes or season passes, and not spending much more than 1000-1500 for unlimited skiing at multiple places.

That's a whole lot less than you could play unlimited golf at world class places for a year, or below average courses, really.

Whistler has long lift lines, and you won’t get a ton of runs. $1200 for a family of four is nuts.

You can’t pay me to golf.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by troutman

Whistler has long lift lines, and you won’t get a ton of runs. $1200 for a family of four is nuts.

You can’t pay me to golf.

That's also 4 days on the slopes. Accomodation and food for that family for 3 nights is probably 5000 or more. But it's not like Whistler was built for average folks. Nobody wants to waste effort selling volume at low margins in recreation when the luxury travel market is hugely profitable.

[fotze2]

Does Edwards own Fortress now?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Btw the Oval is such a great legacy of the 88 Olympics. Pisses me off that we voted the current one down...sure would've been nice to upgrade some of the existing infrastructure or get new ones.

When we voted to not have the olympics, I instantly realized that I was a part of one, if not the, lamest voting populations in the world. I can't meet new people now without wondering if they are in fact one of the throngs of joyless bores that voted against it. Sigh.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Does Edwards own Fortress now?

No. In the mid 70s a guy named Charlie Locke - legit Mountain Guide but also oilman/rancher millionaire - bought into Lake Louise. In '86 he bought Fortress, and over the next decade he created RCR (Resorts of Canadian Rockies) by buying Wintergreen, Nakiska, Kimberley, Fernie, and two resorts in Quebec.

Around 2001 RCR struggled financially and Edwards bought in. In 2004 they closed Fortress, and didn't bother to do anything to preserve the assets up there (already not in the best shape, but still habitable). One of the biggest issues was that the bridge from the highway to the access road was condemned, and it was a whole mess of who should pay and why would GoA pay for a bankrupt resort/etc.

A guy named Zrinko bought it and managed to run it for a season or two with an ATCO trailer (b/c the buildings were now frigged), but it fizzled in a mess where he was selling season passes even though it almost certainly wasn't going to open the next season.

In late 2000s Charlie Locke bought back Lake Louise; Murray continued to own RCR and bought Kicking Horse around 2011. RCR is a cluster#### - gondola derailment at Kicking Horse seriously hurt (killed?) some people, big fire a few years ago at the main lift at Kimberley basically killed a season there, and some injury/death? lift incidents at the Quebec resorts. Whereas Lake Louise has added like 4 new lifts recently and seems to be doing well.

Also in the late 2000s, the son of Sunshine's owner Ralph Scurfield (and grandson of Ralph Sr. who used to be a Flames owner) was skiing at Sunshine with some other nepo-baby dip####s like the son of Westjet's CEO and they went into a closed area - not just out of bounds, but a closed area within the resort which is much more serious and dangerous (could send an avalanche onto regular runs). Senior patrollers gave them #### for it and it turned into a huge mess that ended with ~ 4 long time staff (head of patrol/head of ops/etc) got fired. Some/all of those 4 guys bought Fortress and turned it into a cat skiing operation (and also renting it as a film site (Inception and Revenant I think), Avy courses, and selling fresh water or something).

Pretty sure some/all of those ~4 guys are still involved, can't remember if they were all from SSV originally. I'm not sure on the status of the bridge - I think it got fixed up a bit for Inception, but it hasn't really been open to the public in the last 20 years. Looks like it might have been under construction on Google sat view...can't remember if it got frigged again in the 2013 floods?


But going back to 2004, the visionary move would have been to patch up the buildings a bit and turn Fortress into a limited access backcountry skiing/cat skiing/hiking resort. It's managed well enough doing just day-trip cat skiing, but most cat-ski lodges charge big bucks to house and feed you, too.

[fotze2]

I know Locke. Hes a landowner and partner in a bunch our wells. Total pain in the ass. His wife is the bad one. His company is called Locke stock and two smoking barrels. His sites are derelict with some end of life cardium verts. Surprised the board allows it. I'm sure they will be orphaned one day.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

No. In the mid 70s a guy named Charlie Locke - legit Mountain Guide but also oilman/rancher millionaire - bought into Lake Louise. In '86 he bought Fortress, and over the next decade he created RCR (Resorts of Canadian Rockies) by buying Wintergreen, Nakiska, Kimberley, Fernie, and two resorts in Quebec.

Around 2001 RCR struggled financially and Edwards bought in. In 2004 they closed Fortress, and didn't bother to do anything to preserve the assets up there (already not in the best shape, but still habitable). One of the biggest issues was that the bridge from the highway to the access road was condemned, and it was a whole mess of who should pay and why would GoA pay for a bankrupt resort/etc.

A guy named Zrinko bought it and managed to run it for a season or two with an ATCO trailer (b/c the buildings were now frigged), but it fizzled in a mess where he was selling season passes even though it almost certainly wasn't going to open the next season.

In late 2000s Charlie Locke bought back Lake Louise; Murray continued to own RCR and bought Kicking Horse around 2011. RCR is a cluster#### - gondola derailment at Kicking Horse seriously hurt (killed?) some people, big fire a few years ago at the main lift at Kimberley basically killed a season there, and some injury/death? lift incidents at the Quebec resorts. Whereas Lake Louise has added like 4 new lifts recently and seems to be doing well.

Also in the late 2000s, the son of Sunshine's owner Ralph Scurfield (and grandson of Ralph Sr. who used to be a Flames owner) was skiing at Sunshine with some other nepo-baby dip####s like the son of Westjet's CEO and they went into a closed area - not just out of bounds, but a closed area within the resort which is much more serious and dangerous (could send an avalanche onto regular runs). Senior patrollers gave them #### for it and it turned into a huge mess that ended with ~ 4 long time staff (head of patrol/head of ops/etc) got fired. Some/all of those 4 guys bought Fortress and turned it into a cat skiing operation (and also renting it as a film site (Inception and Revenant I think), Avy courses, and selling fresh water or something).

Pretty sure some/all of those ~4 guys are still involved, can't remember if they were all from SSV originally. I'm not sure on the status of the bridge - I think it got fixed up a bit for Inception, but it hasn't really been open to the public in the last 20 years. Looks like it might have been under construction on Google sat view...can't remember if it got frigged again in the 2013 floods?


But going back to 2004, the visionary move would have been to patch up the buildings a bit and turn Fortress into a limited access backcountry skiing/cat skiing/hiking resort. It's managed well enough doing just day-trip cat skiing, but most cat-ski lodges charge big bucks to house and feed you, too.

Great write up. A version should go in the Edwards thread on the main page. ME isn't very well covered, and he'll be a very debatable topic the next decade.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by troutman

Forget tourists, with Metro Calgary expected to reach 2 Million people in 5 years, there will be greater demands for skiing and recreation sites.

But, with lift tickets exceeding $150 in Alberta, skiing could become the province of the wealthy.

Lol 2 million in 5 years will get the funding as cause. No way.

Vancouver is 2 times that already and Whistler heavily and I mean heavily realizes on tourism. Shining and mtb as become a very afluent hobby quietly. Back in the hayday of mtb you just needed a bike and the right attitude. Turns out the right attitude wasn't enough. You needed the bike, the right helmet, the right knee protection, eye protection etc.
Same goes for skiing/ snowboarding. In 1997 I was lead to believe just showing up with a board in my denim and regular winter gear was enough to get started . 40 minutes later I was soaked wet ( pick a human part of me) it wasn't enough . Never neen back du to.costs involved.

2 million population involves investment into a ski resort? Get out of here. What your proposing is a straight up fantasy. Overall tourism be tween bc and Ontario is 3 times more gdp .

[combustiblefuel]

Alberta separatists need to shut the #### up. Yes you do one thing well but overall your not that great. Get over it

[woob]

Someone needs some more coffee.