When an employer lies to you...

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by fotze

I have seen bosses tell employees that it is "not relevant" and in some cases it is more insulting than lieing and in all cases never ends well. If the employer feels everything is fair as fair then they should have nothing to hide. When you say "it is not relevant" you will never have full respect from your employee ever again and if that is fine with you then go for it. It is totally relevant and everyone knows it and when the boss gets uncomfortable when asked, that proves it is relevant.
That is why the managers get paid the bigger bucks, it is a tough situation and they have to deal with it.

As an employer I never said things were fair. Life ain't fair. People need to get over it. Employers can't jack everyone's rates just because they hire a new person - they'd be out of business pronto.

Moreover, even if it does happen, employees sharing salary info shouldn't. And as someone mentioned revealing that to your boss could get the other person in deep trouble.

You want more money - justify it to me. Don't tell me you want more because some other guy makes more than you. I don't care.

[Flash Walken]

Your Coworker may be lying.

There are other ways to go about getting a pay raise, including a variety of single day certifications. Things like being certified in CPR, operating some kind of machinery (forklift is a great cert to have) all come with pay raises. It took me 5 hours to get my forklift certification, and where I work, that got me a $2 per hour raise. There is a minimum raise requirement for these certifications, but most employers will offer more if the particular certification is in short supply at your place of employment.

Edit: also, because you mentioned you were a student, you might want to be delicate in how you handle this situation. A re-occuring seasonal job for a student is primo. Getting some certifications will increase your job security, and being seen as a 'good' (i.e. not troublesome) employee is a great way to be invited back next summer, probably at a higher pay grade.

[vicphoenix13]

Originally Posted by Sample00

my policy in hiring staff is, if you are good, you get a raise, 3 months or one month, doesnt matter. If you are bad, you get tossed. simple as that!
I can usually get a pretty good read on staff after even a short time on the job.

to the person that wrote," the market is so tough, that employers are going to cave to keep people" I disagree. sorry, I would rather just do the job myself before I allow an employee to dictate their rate of pay to me. If they are good and deserve it, then I have no issue with it. But if they think that I am going to pay them just because the market dictates that I cant find a replacement for them, that employee is just gonna be outta luck.

Have you seen the number of help wanted signs around? I mean, the Tim Hortons in Fort McMurray is willing to pay people $20 dollars an hour to start. In fact, across Canada there is a major labour shortage and employers are willing to pay higher entry level wages. I live in Victoria, B.C. and employers at big box stores here will pay more because of the cost of living. When I started working at a well known big box chain, I got paid $11 dollars per hour when the minimum wage in B.C. is $8.50. The key is to sell yourself and let the company know your expectations. This strategy works more often than not.

[ken0042]

My guess is that your co-worker may not be lying on purpose, but he may not be telling the truth. Some people round, or simply aren't good with math; like the people who tell you that Overtime is automatically taxed so high that you lose the extra cash.

Next payday, start talking about deductions with him. Then ask to see his paystub for a sec. Seeing as he already told you what he's making- that shouldn't be an issue. Then you'll see who is lying. Or if he declines to show you; you will also know who was incorrect.

[Rathji]

If you like the job, and feel you are honestly worth more than you earn then ask for a raise by selling your skills. That said, if your employer is actually paying a new hire 3 dollars an hour more than you, then she will probably give you a raise.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

So I've been at my current job for 3 months now. Typically a good time to approach a supervisor about a raise in pay.

First, some information...a new guy at work this week was open enough to tell me without even asking, what his rate of pay was...quick math lets me find out he makes $3.50 more an hour than I am currently. I know to some here this will seem more insignificant than edmonton, but for a summer job 25 bucks a day more is enough for groceries for the week during school. Anyways, after work today I approached a supervisor about an increase in pay, mentioning I'm looking somewhere in the range of the wage I found out the new employee was offered (keep in mind this person is younger, has less experience, and less certification than myself). When I asked the question 'What type of pay have recent hires been offered?', her answer was a flat out lie, 3.00 less than what I know this new hire is making. At that moment I lost all respect for my place of employement, and considered calling her on it before deciding it wouldn't get me anywhere.

I've also learned that they are going to be 3-4 staff short in the coming weeks as summer comes to a close, a flavorable position to be in as an employee. Our meeting got cut short because she had to take a phone call, but we're supposed to meet again tomorrow morning.

My question to CP....what approach should I take in the morning?

Why call her on it, thats the beauty of Calgary, take 5 minutes to find a better paying job then screw her over somehow ie. dont tell her you quit, just dont show up.

Of course its not ideal if you plan on using it as a reference but I probably wouldnt use that 2 bit joint as a reference anyway.

The only caveat - are you gaining work experience that is similar to what you would be doing after school? Sometimes you have to suck it up for the long run.

MYK

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah, if your co-worker is younger than you....good chance they are lying. I remember a room mate I had once who was like 20 and I was 25 at the time. This kid was a compulsive liar from his 100 grand a year salary to he was pre approved for a 200 grand mortgage next September, to he had just been accepted to U of A psychology so long as he got his high school credits.....I don't want to paint all young people with the same brush...but take what he says with a grain of salt.

[agubuan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What, you guys don't believe in taking the hometown discount?

I am kind of in a similar boat, but not as bad. A new hire with less experience and education than me, is making only slightly less. I think when my yearly review is held, I am going to have to play hardball. My utilization is the highest in Northern BC, so I better get a good offer...

You don't work for ACS do you? If you do, PM me.

[Buff]

Some places just don't have a decent way of managing their employees pay scales... at least not in the eyes of the employees. I worked at one place where I got a $0.25 raise/hr just because it was very slow and I took initiated to do extra cleaning. Another time the manger came in and announced that everybody was getting a raise. Of course people started talking about it after they saw their next paystub. Raises varied from $0.05/hr to $0.50/hr. It made no sense as to who got what either.

At another place I worked the amount of pay raise a person got depended on how their department manager was. There was a probationary eval and then yearly evaluations. If you had a good evaluation you got a pay raise, and the amount of the raise depended on how good the eval went. So here I am, in the good department, getting a $0.75/hr raise while my buddy in another department gets a better eval than me but only gets $0.15/hr. We secretly compared wages to each other. After 3 years I was making more than him (4 raises) and he had been there 6 years (7 raises). We both started with the same wage too.

At another I worked place your pay depended on how much you could get them to agree to (negotiations were very informal). Raises were few and far between.

Basically, even though there is a more fair way to figure out pay scales and raises not every company gets it right. Not every company can get it right.

[DementedReality]

sorry if this is a little OT, but unless it is a contractual obligation, there is no mechanics for an employer to discipline an employee for discussing their wage.

it is the employer who may not discuss the wage as it is a privacy issue, however the employee is free to tell anyone they want how much they make. the only caviet being if their is a contractual obligation to not disclose this information.

however, how many people have employment contracts? i am almost certain that those of you who are talking about $xx/hour raises arent working under contracts. with all due respect of course, employment contracts are typically for senior level employee's and they dont get paid by the hour in most cases.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

sorry if this is a little OT, but unless it is a contractual obligation, there is no mechanics for an employer to discipline an employee for discussing their wage.

it is the employer who may not discuss the wage as it is a privacy issue, however the employee is free to tell anyone they want how much they make. the only caviet being if their is a contractual obligation to not disclose this information.

however, how many people have employment contracts? i am almost certain that those of you who are talking about $xx/hour raises arent working under contracts. with all due respect of course, employment contracts are typically for senior level employee's and they dont get paid by the hour in most cases.

Agreed, in the case of hourly type jobs your point is good. But in any of the companies I've worked at we've always had employee contracts that included a clause re. discussing salaries.

[Buff]

I should note that a former neighbour of mine was canned from their job because they found out the wages of another employee. I guess she saw the yet to be delivered pay stub on her bosses desk and snooped through them. She confronted the boss about not getting equal pay and he fired her for breach of confidentiality. She worked at some financial instituion and her boss decided he couldn't trust her with their clients info.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Buff

I should note that a former neighbour of mine was canned from their job because they found out the wages of another employee. I guess she saw the yet to be delivered pay stub on her bosses desk and snooped through them. She confronted the boss about not getting equal pay and he fired her for breach of confidentiality. She worked at some financial instituion and her boss decided he couldn't trust her with their clients info.

sure and that is grounds for being fired. not that she knew the other employee's wages, but for going through stuff on her bosses desk.

although i would bet there is more to the story and that the boss was looking for a reason to remove her from her job and she gave him one.

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by Buff

I should note that a former neighbour of mine was canned from their job because they found out the wages of another employee. I guess she saw the yet to be delivered pay stub on her bosses desk and snooped through them. She confronted the boss about not getting equal pay and he fired her for breach of confidentiality. She worked at some financial instituion and her boss decided he couldn't trust her with their clients info.

That was just a stupid thing for her to do. Imagine if her boss had walked in while she was doing that.
How can you keep a straight face when saying that you just snooped in someone else's confidential papers and that you are in the right.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Buff

I should note that a former neighbour of mine was canned from their job because they found out the wages of another employee. I guess she saw the yet to be delivered pay stub on her bosses desk and snooped through them. She confronted the boss about not getting equal pay and he fired her for breach of confidentiality. She worked at some financial instituion and her boss decided he couldn't trust her with their clients info.

I had an employee admit to me during a salary negotiation that they had hacked into my computer files to reveal what other's were making. He thought that was a good negotiation strategy. Got him fired. He was a close friend too which made it even worse.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I know in the industry I work in, many companies have the reputation for taking advantage of loyalty and continually low-ball. Most people work for one company until they start to realize that they are getting lowballed, and then they move on to another company with the experience and get paid way more.

Loyalty to a company is so 1950's; if your boss doesn't think you deserve a raise, and you think you do, then find another job where they'll pay you what you think you're worth. Three times I've quit somewhere after asking for a raise I didn't get, and three times they've suddenly "found" the money to pay me what I was asking. (And in every case I left anyway).

This is the age of the mercenary. Few companies reward loyalty - even if they wanted to, most managers move from company to company just like the peons do, so your 10 years of dedicated service doesn't mean jack to the new guy who just got parachuted in from Vancouver to head your department. Do what you need to for yourself, 'cause otherwise you're going to look back one day and wonder why your hard work didn't translate into anything other than a week's pay for every year you put in before the layoffs came.