the Tax Man

[Slava]

No, the worst case is Liverpool banter and I know that others here will back me up on that!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, the worst case is Liverpool banter and I know that others here will back me up on that!

Its not my fault you picked Spurs!

Dont blame them Scousers!

[SportsJunky]

All the top tax accounts are insomniacs.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

All the top tax accounts are insomniacs.

Can confirm.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

All the top tax accounts are insomniacs.

Originally Posted by Locke

Can confirm.

Originally Posted by Locke

Like...what? To come and get me? I only have a helipad for 1 and mine is parked there.

Only parking for one helicopter?

Story doesn’t check out.

But we’re all rooting for you to get there after this tax season Locke!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by fotze2

It's almost a payday loan place. Does money mart not exist anymore? I rarely see it.

Something tells me you don't operate too often in areas where those types of places are common. I don't either, so maybe they are gone.

[ken0042]

So speaking of the various options, is there a big benefit for a couple with a simple return to use an accountant over just using Intuit? For example my wife and I are empty nesters, one T4 each and just RRSPs and small charitable donations.

Is the price comparable; and/or is there extra value in what an accountant could provide? (Aside from a potential helicopter ride.)

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So speaking of the various options, is there a big benefit for a couple with a simple return to use an accountant over just using Intuit? For example my wife and I are empty nesters, one T4 each and just RRSPs and small charitable donations.

Is the price comparable; and/or is there extra value in what an accountant could provide? (Aside from a potential helicopter ride.)

The answer is always, "It depends."

I will say that anyone who says they have a simple return, is wrong. Straightforward, maybe, but definitely not simple. Seriously speaking. What type of "simple activity" ends up as 15-30 pages fully printed out, with only a handful of inputs? That's what a full T1 return is. Many people don't realize they've only ever seem simple/summarized versions of their full T1 return and how damn badly we need tax reform.

I don't think it's an issue to continue doing preparing and filing yourself. But there's value in occasionally, getting a professional to do it (not those cheap ones that cut way too many corners) for a year or two and quietly compare the return you would have prepared vs the tax preparer + review pattern differences with the tax preparer before going back to filing on your own. You might be surprised at how many differences are noted. It's not a guarantee that whatever you pay would be how much you potentially save and more.

Even if someone only has a few slips, the return can still be ####ed up royally. I've seen it happen a lot more than I like. Filing "correctly" wise, CRA only cares if you file incorrectly in a manner where you underpay. They laugh and move on if you file incorrectly and overpay taxes. That's where a good (not crappy) tax prepper is supposed to comes in. They might be aware of "small" things that have significantly bigger impacts than the tax payer originally realizes.

I'm sure there's a lot of posters who are doing a good job, but based on my experience, self filing taxpayers who can file on par with H&R block is uncommon and I don't think H&R block/Liberty tax etc. should be considered at the standard people should be comfortable with. The taxpayers missing out on hundreds to thousands of dollars in deductions or entitlements or putting themselves at risk to the tune of thousands of dollars a year are sadly, a lot more common. It's akin to how common many people expect a clean bill of health at an annual body check up, but get a rude awakening instead.

I've seen people fail to apply for carbon tax refunds. I barely know how that's possible, it should be nearly automatic. I've seen people drowning in their circumstances but also be "lazy" in adding a child to the DEP section of their return. The kid's already like 4 and they're not aware they are screwing themselves over for CCB to the tune of nearly tens of thousands of dollars over those years, let alone GST and other entitlements. I've seen people fail to realize that foreign stocks in a Canadian brokerage need to be reported on a T1135 and they have over a million in foreign investments which means tens of thousands in potential penalties over many years. Some can't be damned to grab medical/charitable/digital news etc. slips thinking it's maybe worth a hundred bucks at most and blown away when they realize what they're giving up a year. School kids with two slips with scholarships that qualify as non-taxable, but have incorrectly filed as taxable instead, so they pay hundreds of dollars in taxes they don't need to. I've seen pension transfers missed which means hundreds to thousands of dollars of tax efficiency. Many people (DIY or those ultra cheap options) just rollover the prior year return, click autofill and move on with a "hell yeah! I'm done!".

There are many tick boxes/forms aren't slips, but are part of the complexity and can be very costly if done incorrectly. I've had people ask me how it's possible that my work and theirs/someone else's could have such extreme differences.

I'm more than happy if more and more taxpayers don't need a basic service from tax preparers because they are doing things at a level where the CRA isn't technically able to take advantage of them. Unfortunately, it's the opposite and the CRA gets a ton of wins they don't deserve.

And seriously, most preparers are tax payers too. They derive no joy in seeing the CRA pick on taxpayers like they're picking low hanging fruit. But the perception of tax preparers from many people do not reflect that at all.

[Geraldsh]

CRA hassled me constantly for several years, until I got fed up and turned my file over to HR Block. They don’t do anything special for the fee they charge but CRA doesn’t call me anymore so it’s worth it.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

CRA hassled me constantly for several years, until I got fed up and turned my file over to HR Block. They don’t do anything special for the fee they charge but CRA doesn’t call me anymore so it’s worth it.

TBH, my gripes with HR Block and Liberty tax type outfits is less the initial preparation an filing of the return and moreso their misleading attitude/legalese and unwillingness to stand by their work. I've met too many people who have had a crappy time/inability in getting those pop up outfits to honor their post filing guarantee.

If you read their guarantee, it basically says they'll cover anything, but then offers clauses that weasels them out of like 99% of the reasons that a correction would be required and the fee to fix it is such you're better off going to a year round outfit anyways. If these outfits had a legitimate post filing support offering, they'd be a force to be reckoned with... but that also wouldn't really fit their business model.

EDIT: Coincidentally, a former client just reached out after a nightmare scenario with H&R Block. I mean, out east in a small town hours from a city... but still. When client said H&R Block was incorrect and H&R Block refused to do it properly... that sucks. I don't think all H&R block peeps are that bad... but this story... it was extremely bad.

Interprovincial CPA beef is going crazy, so I can't really help. It's almost like, file it yourself if the dude in that small town is so bad. It'll still be badly flawed, but not as bad as what that guy is doing.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Locke

I have always said...when I decide it's my last year before retirement I want to work for H&R Block in one of those cubicles at the Mall.

"Show me what you got! Really try and surprise me! I want to see it!"

No...you really don't. I can't tell you what it's like now, but I did that once when...um....young, which was rather a while back now. Nope. You don't wanna do that unless you are a true glutton for punishment.


After about four decades in tax....I couldn't imagine going to do something like that. I can barely stand doing T1s unless they're "interesting" enough now.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

No...you really don't. I can't tell you what it's like now, but I did that once when...um....young, which was rather a while back now. Nope. You don't wanna do that unless you are a true glutton for punishment.

After about four decades in tax....I couldn't imagine going to do something like that. I can barely stand doing T1s unless they're "interesting" enough now.

You've met me. You know the answer to that question.

Yeah, I'm a little more than half-way from your career, this is my 24th year. I did a casual analysis of how many Tax Returns I've done in my life, combined T1s, T2s and T3s...it was...eye-opening and, not gonna lie, more than a little depressing.

In the meantime we raise a glass of wine to the Evil God of Tax and press on.

[taxbuster]

@DoubleF has it right...there are straightforward returns and then there are...others. Why? Because most of us in the tax biz know how to ask the questions that uncover opportunities and ensure that returns are filed to your best advantage. In some cases, your best advantage is "not being audited" because you would otherwise file in some totally boneheaded manner that simply beg review.


The amount of misinformation in the public domain is unbelievable...even on professional forums. I'm on a few and some of the questions asked by "professional tax preparers" (some are CPAs, too) and the approaches taken are SCARY. While everyone needs to learn, those who are doing so also need someone senior to reivew and discuss with, chew things over and most of all: be able to read and clearly interpret (hah!) the Income Tax Act.


No guide, tax program or website is a substitute for the Act, its interpretations and various levels of Tax Court decisions. None. That's why we're in business. It's complex, even in "simple" situations sometimes.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Locke

You've met me. You know the answer to that question.

Yeah, I'm a little more than half-way from your career, this is my 24th year. I did a casual analysis of how many Tax Returns I've done in my life, combined T1s, T2s and T3s...it was...eye-opening and, not gonna lie, more than a little depressing.

In the meantime we raise a glass of wine to the Evil God of Tax and press on.

Fair enough...you're crazy!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Fair enough...you're crazy!

Thats what they tell me...