Poll: How satisfied are you with the Flames' re-build so far?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

At the end of the day doing something and saying something are 2 different things and the flames have done something in the last 30 days. This likely was always the plan but nice to see some pieces moving as it had been a long time between moves

Except people freaked out over something that was said (and not even by Conroy).

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except people freaked out over something that was said (and not even by Conroy).

Yes what was said by Conroy’s boss echoed a lot of the message we have heard from the organization in the past right down to not even being able to say rebuild (hence rebiggle). People freaking out during a painful season is far from surprising.

[PepsiFree]

Just because something isn’t surprising doesn’t mean it’s reasonable or makes sense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Yes what was said by Conroy’s boss echoed a lot of the message we have heard from the organization in the past right down to not even being able to say rebuild (hence rebiggle). People freaking out during a painful season is far from surprising.

"What we've heard" is even less than an actual quote, let alone actions.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

"What we've heard" is even less than an actual quote, let alone actions.

The actions are clear if you have followed this team for 2 decades. We saw an organization painfully hold onto their players until they had no choice but to rebuild as they moved on or retired and then we watched the same organization put their foot on the gas trading away multiple 1st and 2nd round picks to speed up that rebuild. Then they attempted to retool despite losing 2 top 10 scorers in the league.

Actions of the past line up with what we have heard.

[FanIn80]

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The actions are clear if you have followed this team for 2 decades. We saw an organization painfully hold onto their players until they had no choice but to rebuild as they moved on or retired and then we watched the same organization put their foot on the gas trading away multiple 1st and 2nd round picks to speed up that rebuild. Then they attempted to retool despite losing 2 top 10 scorers in the league.

Actions of the past line up with what we have heard.

They traded every vet that was expiring plus three that weren’t. they made offers that reportedly stood no chance of being accepted (and made no offers at all to a couple that got traded). They made no moves to sign UFAs or trade for well known vets. The only trade that was even close to a hockey trade was for younger players who fit the timeline better. If you think that’s a retool I can’t help you. A retool is Rantanen for Necas. It’s what Vegas continually does. It’s not making no moves to get immediately better.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

This would obviously be a game breaker for the Flames if it were to happen.

He'll be 28 when he goes UFA (29 right after the next season starts) and the Flames would be able to back up the Brinks truck and he'd start his first season in a brand spanking new state of the art arena in his home town.

Let's hope he resists extending in Colorado this summer and next season.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They traded every vet that was expiring plus three that weren’t. they made offers that reportedly stood no chance of being accepted (and made no offers at all to a couple that got traded). They made no moves to sign UFAs or trade for well known vets. The only trade that was even close to a hockey trade was for younger players who fit the timeline better. If you think that’s a retool I can’t help you. A retool is Rantanen for Necas. It’s what Vegas continually does. It’s not making no moves to get immediately better.

Tkachuk for Huberdeau, Weegar and a 1st was a retool trade. Same with using a 1st to dump an injured Monahan and then immediately using the cap space to sign Kadri. That was Treliving's attempt at retooling after Johnny walked.

It looked good on paper but obviously failed miserably on the ice.

Everything Conroy has done since taking over has been rebuilding. The only exception of this IMO would be the Frost/Farabee trade, but that was an opportunity to grab two mid twenties players that were badly needing a change of scenery and were acquired for pennies on the dollar in hopes that down the road they can either be flipped for a bigger return than what they gave up to acquire them, or the outside chance of extending them if they fit in and can be key veterans for this team as they transition back into contention with the new core the Flames build.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They traded every vet that was expiring plus three that weren’t. they made offers that reportedly stood no chance of being accepted (and made no offers at all to a couple that got traded). They made no moves to sign UFAs or trade for well known vets. The only trade that was even close to a hockey trade was for younger players who fit the timeline better. If you think that’s a retool I can’t help you. A retool is Rantanen for Necas. It’s what Vegas continually does. It’s not making no moves to get immediately better.

Was it not clear the retool trade I referred to was the Tkachuk trade? I referenced losing 2 top 10 scorers in reference to the trade so not sure what you are talking about?

The Flames lost 2 top 10 scorers and decided the supporting cast that missed the playoffs the year before were worth continuing to build around and sent Tkschuk+Monahan+1st for Huberdeau+Weegar+Kadri+1st. That was the retool that failed.

The team shifted to a rebuild and traded a lot of their vets. They then had a period of 18 months where they made no more subtractions from the team and did add some age appropriate pieces for minimal futures (no issues with that trade).

To really summarize the previous actions of the org that could give some fans concerns:

- 2010 the hockey world say the Flames need a rebuild. The rebuild eventually starts 3 years later
- 2013 is the start of the next phase. By 2017 they will have traded 2 1sts and 5 second round picks for win now pieces. Using cap space on free agents to try and win as soon as possible put them in a spot where they could not afford to sign their franchise player to a long term deal
2022 - they lose their highest scoring player for nothing in free agency and their franchise player demands a trade. Instead of rebuilding they decide to try and retool around a supporting cast that missed the playoffs altogether in 2021
2024- the rebuild begins as the team is off to a bad start and have a ton of pending UFA’s. That continues into the summer then pauses for 18 months as they had a far better season than expected. This season gets off to a bad start and people are excited for the “high pick” portion of the rebuild to begin.

When Maloney comes out and says rebiggle it reminds me of the past regimes that chose the mushy middle over fears of being at the bottom and not being able to climb back out.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This would obviously be a game breaker for the Flames if it were to happen.

He'll be 28 when he goes UFA (29 right after the next season starts) and the Flames would be able to back up the Brinks truck and he'd start his first season in a brand spanking new state of the art arena in his home town.

Let's hope he resists extending in Colorado this summer and next season.

This slightly smacks of "McDavid is going to go home to Toronto!".

It's good to love your home town. But it's a different animal when you've lived elsewhere for a while. I'd imagine especially as a multi-millionaire.

Would still love to see it of course!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Tkachuk for Huberdeau, Weegar and a 1st was a retool trade. Same with using a 1st to dump an injured Monahan and then immediately using the cap space to sign Kadri. That was Treliving's attempt at retooling after Johnny walked.

It looked good on paper but obviously failed miserably on the ice.

Everything Conroy has done since taking over has been rebuilding. The only exception of this IMO would be the Frost/Farabee trade, but that was an opportunity to grab two mid twenties players that were badly needing a change of scenery and were acquired for pennies on the dollar in hopes that down the road they can either be flipped for a bigger return than what they gave up to acquire them, or the outside chance of extending them if they fit in and can be key veterans for this team as they transition back into contention with the new core the Flames build.

I wasn't going back as far as the Tkachuk trade. They were obviously not rebuilding then. I'm only judging the current management.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Was it not clear the retool trade I referred to was the Tkachuk trade? I referenced losing 2 top 10 scorers in reference to the trade so not sure what you are talking about?

Not clear enough to me, I guess, my bad.

But then, no one claimed it was a rebuild back then so I can't see how that transaction fits into the words versus deeds debate.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not clear enough to me, I guess, my bad.

But then, no one claimed it was a rebuild back then so I can't see how that transaction fits into the words versus deeds debate.

Again, it was a commentary on how the organization has operated for more than 2 decades. I referenced their reluctance in 2010 to rebuild that delayed the inevitable 3 years. I talked about how they pushed their foot on the gas as soon as things pointed in the right direction in 2015 and that resulted in the yo-yo seasons this team had until they were forced to be broken up in 2022 where the org tried to retool rather than rebuild despite losing their top 2 players that offseason.

All of those reasons are why I think it is fair that some fans were freaking out or having doubts about the direction when Maloney said rebiggle. I am personally relieved and happy to see what has happened and what has been said in the last month by insiders who seem to believe there is more selling to come.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This would obviously be a game breaker for the Flames if it were to happen.

He'll be 28 when he goes UFA (29 right after the next season starts) and the Flames would be able to back up the Brinks truck and he'd start his first season in a brand spanking new state of the art arena in his home town.

Let's hope he resists extending in Colorado this summer and next season.

I wonder, if Colorado knows hes going to market next summer - it would make sense to trade him and get some big pieces back.

Does Calgary have enough pieces to put a package together to get Makar.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Again, it was a commentary on how the organization has operated for more than 2 decades. I referenced their reluctance in 2010 to rebuild that delayed the inevitable 3 years. I talked about how they pushed their foot on the gas as soon as things pointed in the right direction in 2015 and that resulted in the yo-yo seasons this team had until they were forced to be broken up in 2022 where the org tried to retool rather than rebuild despite losing their top 2 players that offseason.

All of those reasons are why I think it is fair that some fans were freaking out or having doubts about the direction when Maloney said rebiggle. I am personally relieved and happy to see what has happened and what has been said in the last month by insiders who seem to believe there is more selling to come.

It was absolutely not obvious in 2022 that they should rebuild. They had a veteran laden team and an opportunity to continue on. I don't think that's a similar situation at all.

2015 - well, they thought had three stars on the rise, and then they drafted another one in 2016. They had a 23 year old stud defenceman. Plus a couple more promising young draftees in Andersson, Mangiapane and Kylington. They also wanted to get better quickly while Backlund, Brodie and Frolik were prime and before Gio aged out. So it I don't think they quit a rebuild - they just decided it was time to start the build versus continue the tank.

2010 - yeah they didn't rebuild. That's 15 years ago.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

2010 - yeah they didn't rebuild. That's 25 years ago.

15 years ago… but it might as well be 25 or 125, because everyone from hockey operations involved in that decision has long since been fired.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

15 years ago… but it might as well be 25 or 125, because everyone from hockey operations involved in that decision has long since been fired.

corrected