Are the Flames re-building?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If a person has a dilapated house, and they sit on it for a few years and allow things to start falling in, and finally rot seeps through a retaining wall and most of the roof comes down, do you say: that person demolished their house!

I would not. I think that's what we're looking at here.

Better to demolish it while some old and new residents still have to live in it?

[Gugstanley]

I want Rebiggling shirts made. We survived the great Rebiggle of 2026.

[TheScorpion]

They are rebuilding. The better question would be whether they're rebuilding by choice.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

I like the draft choices they've made but am still frustrated by how slow they were to accept the rebuild. I do think this season Conroy made some strides and if they move Kadri and Coleman for good returns I'll be happy with the progress.

[devo22]

Flames just need to get their act together in terms of messaging. I don't need (or want, actually) them to do what the Rangers did, but just don't lie to your fanbase. And avoid unnecessary tirefires like the Maloney interview. Absolutely everything about their PR work around this rebuild needs to improve.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Multiple people spend their days telling us they aren't so it was good to clear things up.

Much needed clarity that the vast vast majority of this community knows the Flames are rebuilding.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No that's not what the poll is. I was very clear on what the poll was and wasn't.

I'll start a separate poll on if they are re-building properly.

You can then call that one stupid too.

This is how they will forever dispute the survey's obvious results by obfuscating a clearly written question.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

They are rebuilding. The better question would be whether they're rebuilding by choice.

Can we agree they're not actively trying to be better right now? Nor have they been in the last 2.6 years? (since the Toffoli trade).

I think that's an important fork in the road.

If you agree to that ... then they are doing what they are doing ... retool, rebuild, rebiggle ... call it what you want.

As I've said; I certainly understand fans wish for them to lean into it harder, but can we put to bed this nonsense about wanting to compete and make the playoffs?

[saillias]

It's a bit more complicated a question than yes or no. While the answer is yes, what exactly does that entail? What is their timeline? Do they give it up if they have a underdog run to 8th or 9th place again? Does Cale Makar fall into their laps in UFA and they decide all done?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

No.
The "right" question was the one the person who made the pool wanted answered, which was:
Are the Flames Re-Building?"

That is it

Only God knows how somebody could read something entirely else into such a simple and straightforward question. We are doomed with any future Alberta separation referendum.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yes they're making changes, but they're not actually changing anything at all at the end of the day. We didn't even trade Andersson for a friggin forward, for crying out loud. We literally traded him for another right-shot D to replace him, and people are acting like that's how you rebuild. I'll change my mind if they trade Whitecloud for more picks and leave room for Parekh to play full-time, but I strongly suspect they wanted Whitecloud and the plan is to keep him.

Even with full retention, Vegas still needed cap room to make the deal, so they had to send a contract back. The one the Flames got back has good value. Taking back a contract that has less or no value wouldn't make it a rebuilding trade.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Can we agree they're not actively trying to be better right now? Nor have they been in the last 2.6 years? (since the Toffoli trade).

I think that's an important fork in the road.

If you agree to that ... then they are doing what they are doing ... retool, rebuild, rebiggle ... call it what you want.

As I've said; I certainly understand fans wish for them to lean into it harder, but can we put to bed this nonsense about wanting to compete and make the playoffs?

Why is Toffoli your marker per se? Didn't he ask to be traded? Seems more suitable candidates. Genuinely asking not attacking here.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Why is Toffoli your marker per se? Didn't he ask to be traded? Seems more suitable candidates. Genuinely asking not attacking here.

He asked to be traded when the Flames wouldn't entertain any kind of term on a new contract.

Felt like the first "decision" to me.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He asked to be traded when the Flames wouldn't entertain any kind of term on a new contract.

Felt like the first "decision" to me.

Makes sense yeah. He asked after seeing where the wind was blowing. Fair enough.

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They have been rebuilding for sure.

I think from June 2023 to June 2024 they were actively tearing down the roster: Toffoli, Zadorov, Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, Markstrom, and Mangiapane were all moved out over a 12 month period in primarily futures driven trades.

Then there was a bit of an 18 month holding period, but they were still rebuilding, just not quite ready and didn't have a pressing need to tear it down any further and think the strong 24/25 season left room for them to pause and rethink things.

Now I do think they are at a bit of a fulcrum again where they moved Andersson, and really should be moving Coleman and Kadri.

I think you could argue they aren't quite proactive enough in some instances, but overall it's still a rebuild

I voted yes for the same reasons.

The 18-month holding pattern is spot on, and speaks more to the "how" than the "is it?" of the rebuild/rebiggle. The Andersson trade didn't really disrupt the holding pattern, IMO, because we traded out a 29-year old RH D for another 29 year-old RH D, plus some draft capital to compensate the team for giving up the better player. Roster stays the same age, and we aren't opening a spot for a younger player. And that's nothing against Whitecloud at all, who seems great.

It's partly why I voted Face Plant in the Andersson trade poll - not because the return was terrible, it certainly wasn't, but because it's another trade that maintains this holding pattern. It's another rebiggle trade.

A lot of the moves that have been made have had a hybrid feel to them, with returns consistently bringing back a bit of "now" and a bit of "future", as opposed to moves that are strictly futures-based.

For me, the biggest clue about the "rebuild" hasn't been the trade returns on pending UFA's, but more about the unspent salary cap dollars over the last couple of years. That's clearly a shift that signals the team is actively not going for it.

I would really like to see the team start moving veterans with term and intentionally opening up spots for younger, developing players. If we want to maintain some veteran presence for mentorship and the locker room, then grab a couple of guys who are good leaders at the end of their careers on one-year contracts and flip them at the deadline for mid-round picks. Get out of the holding pattern and end the rebiggle.

I look forward to the scale-based poll.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Can we agree they're not actively trying to be better right now? Nor have they been in the last 2.6 years? (since the Toffoli trade).

I think that's an important fork in the road.

If you agree to that ... then they are doing what they are doing ... retool, rebuild, rebiggle ... call it what you want.

As I've said; I certainly understand fans wish for them to lean into it harder, but can we put to bed this nonsense about wanting to compete and make the playoffs?

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I was at a dinner with CSEC executives back in the June/July time frame. I can confirm unequivocally that the messaging at that time was 100% about being competitive and building on the 97 point season.

Results spoke for themselves after the first few months, so kudos on them for pivoting correctly.

Are we suggesting then this poster is writing "nonsense"?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Are we suggesting then this poster is writing "nonsense"?

Not nonsense, but things that executives say about their own business in any public setting, are different than what is said behind closed doors.

This organization though is far too paranoid about having to toe (tow?) a line about remaining competitive.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Are we suggesting then this poster is writing "nonsense"?

Not at all.

But then I have always considered the messaging to not match the action.

[Brad Marsh]

Do we really believe though that the ownership and senior management weren't thinking the team could take another step forward and make the playoffs this year? That it was only "PR messaging" and nothing more than that?

I'm not so sure...........

I think they've accepted their fate (to a degree, at least) this year, but I think they came into the season with pretty high hopes (expectations?) of competing for a playoff spot.

Could be wrong.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

Do we really believe though that the ownership and senior management weren't thinking the team could take another step forward and make the playoffs this year? That it was only "PR messaging" and nothing more than that?

I'm not so sure...........

I think they've accepted their fate (to a degree, at least) this year, but I think they came into the season with pretty high hopes (expectations?) of competing for a playoff spot.

Could be wrong.

If the goal was to make the playoffs wouldnt they have added? Tons of picks and cap available. Heck Vancouver was trading picks for vets.