Some good points but Flames don't have a good shot at finishing last...maybe some lottery luck but its almost impossible for Vancouver to make up that many points
It’s pretty much guaranteed that the Canucks will finish with more points than the Flames have now. The question is how bad the Flames will be down the stretch. They won’t pick up many wins scoring one goal per game, that’s for sure.
I think last overall is still within reach. A lot of hockey yet to be played.
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‘You see in Calgary, [Ryan] Huska is no joke. It’s good. He’s really set on a specific model defensively. If you can be reliable, you have the freedom to play offence.’
—Ethan Wyttenbach
Who said anything about main piece? Who said anything about crowing?
The point you were trying to make was about Chicago trading vets. The article wasn’t helpful, nor was the trade really an example of much. If the Flames had a third goalie, they’d trade their third goalie.
The point you were trying to make was about Chicago trading vets. The article wasn’t helpful, nor was the trade really an example of much. If the Flames had a third goalie, they’d trade their third goalie.
Was pretty funny you saying none of those guys were going to be traded or rumoured to be traded, and one actually was though!
The initial point, lost in you dragging another discussion into the minutia, was that veteren help and leadership is easy to fine and we can't clutch our pearls at the thought of shipping out vets. They can be replaced. Also not going to feign concern at falling below the salary cap floor, it's not that difficult to get there.
Not concerned about Huberdeau's or Kadri's contract term due to our standings but if we can ship them out without costing us anything you'd be a fool not to go with it. Cap floor next year will roughly be 70million, remove those two contracts immediately and you're only a couple million under with Wolf's new contract starting. Sign another bottom line vet for 2-3 years, get Anders Lee for some veteren presence for all I care. The cap floor isn't a concern.
Kinda ranted at the end because I still can't get over you thinking the Flames wouldn't walk away from Huberdeau's contract free and clear if they could.
Was pretty funny you saying none of those guys were going to be traded or rumoured to be traded, and one actually was though!
The initial point, lost in you dragging another discussion into the minutia, was that veteren help and leadership is easy to fine and we can't clutch our pearls at the thought of shipping out vets. They can be replaced. Also not going to feign concern at falling below the salary cap floor, it's not that difficult to get there.
Not concerned about Huberdeau's or Kadri's contract term due to our standings but if we can ship them out without costing us anything you'd be a fool not to go with it. Cap floor next year will roughly be 70million, remove those two contracts immediately and you're only a couple million under with Wolf's new contract starting. Sign another bottom line vet for 2-3 years, get Anders Lee for some veteren presence for all I care. The cap floor isn't a concern.
Kinda ranted at the end because I still can't get over you thinking the Flames wouldn't walk away from Huberdeau's contract free and clear if they could.
WTF? I never said the Flames wouldn’t leave Huberdeau’s contract if they could. I said it wasn’t an issue for the team at the moment, for for the near future.
WTF? I never said the Flames wouldn’t leave Huberdeau’s contract if they could. I said it wasn’t an issue for the team at the moment, for for the near future.
You tip toed around it, avoided it and said it wasn't worth your time. For a guy with 16 posts a day that's a bit suspicious.
Look at the Flames cap situation, look at exiting contracts, new contracts starting and tell me the floor is an issue. Tell me the the Flames wouldn't walk away from Huderdeau free and clear if they could. Try not to dance too much.
I’m starting to think that the NHL should bring in the points system for the draft order
Once you’re mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you get points for wins and such, whoever has the most points in that category picks first, then second, ect.
That way if you’re #### you get eliminated early, and have more chances to get points; but still have something to play for. That imo would play right into Calgary’s hands cause we don’t tank well.
Think they do that in the PWHL? Or I heard it from somewhere else.
Anyways keeps teams from stopping trying and makes it more competitive
I’m starting to think that the NHL should bring in the points system for the draft order
Once you’re mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you get points for wins and such, whoever has the most points in that category picks first, then second, ect.
That way if you’re #### you get eliminated early, and have more chances to get points; but still have something to play for. That imo would play right into Calgary’s hands cause we don’t tank well.
Think they do that in the PWHL? Or I heard it from somewhere else.
Anyways keeps teams from stopping trying and makes it more competitive
One of the major issues is that division and conference can play a big part in when a team is mathematically eliminated .
It would work better if the top 16 teams made the playoffs.
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The reason their vets mostly have 1 or 2 years remaining, or are UFAs, is because CHI has been rebuilding longer, and the vet contracts are coming due.
But they have not been reluctant to have vets on the team, and next year they will have the same problem people are suggesting the Flames will have if they trade their vets, CHI is $30M shy of the floor for 26/27 with 5 forwards and 2 D t sign.
In other words, they are going to have to sign a bunch more vets.
That list of vets are all short term and some are playing well. Chicago is done tanking so they plan to keep some of these players.
A few years ago they showed you cantrade players and still get to the floor.
Any player the flames have that has around 1st round value or more should go, keep everyone else unless they are blocking a kid from getting a spot.
Sign a few short term deals in the summer, retain slaary and take bad contracts back to get to the floor. It's not that hard.
I’m starting to think that the NHL should bring in the points system for the draft order
Once you’re mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you get points for wins and such, whoever has the most points in that category picks first, then second, ect.
That way if you’re #### you get eliminated early, and have more chances to get points; but still have something to play for. That imo would play right into Calgary’s hands cause we don’t tank well.
Think they do that in the PWHL? Or I heard it from somewhere else.
Anyways keeps teams from stopping trying and makes it more competitive
I’m a strong supporter of this as it also gives fans of bad teams a reason to cheer for wins.
Sadly I don’t see it happening.
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You tip toed around it, avoided it and said it wasn't worth your time. For a guy with 16 posts a day that's a bit suspicious.
Look at the Flames cap situation, look at exiting contracts, new contracts starting and tell me the floor is an issue. Tell me the the Flames wouldn't walk away from Huderdeau free and clear if they could. Try not to dance too much.
I have no idea what posts you are talking about.
If the Flames could get rid of the contract they would. Of course, they’d have to pay someone 8M to make up for it.
My position is pretty clear, if you care to actually read what I wrote and not make up things. Try to follow along, and I will repeat it:
1. When Huberdeau was acquired a lot of posters liked it, while others insisted it wouldn’t be a good deal unless he was immediately signed long term.
2. Huberdeau obviously isn’t playing as everyone hoped when he was signed, and this year is even worse - last year was far better. However, his play isn’t as bad as a lot of people describe - posters who actively look for mistakes - the whole team is playing poorly and his play reflects that. He gets criticized for plays that every other player on the team is making. If he’s checked off the puck or is a defender gets a stick on a pass it’s called a giveaway.
3. His salary at the moment is irrelevant to the team’s plans. It doesn’t stop them from rebuilding. It won’t be an issue for years. Maybe never.
4. As players develop, if and when a LW deserves his spot, they should get it. At the moment, that hasn’t happened. As unproductive as he is, it hasn’t happened.
I am definitely on the same timeline as you - rebuild started when Conroy took over. I have also stated on many occasions that part of the reason I wanted Conroy hired is that he was here with a front row seat to the past mistakes made in this organization, so there is less chance that he would repeat those same mistakes.
However, I read this board and I see impatience already. LoL "Huska sucks", "This team is boring", "Losing sucks".. There is undeniable pressure to win in this market. Hopefully the new building smell will off-set that long enough to allow Conroy to not listen to the noise, that's all. I know that Conroy values picks and prospects more than most GMs.
As for the "this is the way" - I never really think of things in that manner. I am not convinced that the ownership group is all that meddlesome despite the constant rumours.
The only thing I would say is that there has always been a distinct difference between Calgary and Edmonton - Edmonton has always been the "lucky" team that has everything fall into its lap while keeping one hand out open for handouts, and continuously patting itself on the back, while Calgary is the Ox - always struggling but proud.
Calgary is finally going along with the established system instead of fighting against it. Finally recognizing that there is a distinct difference between intentionally tanking, and just being honest and maximizing asset value. I believe Calgary is on the right track, and I actually think they will get a top 3 pick - hopefully McKenna if the lotto balls work out. I think they will sink in the standings with a very good shot at finishing last, rather than climbing to pick 5-6. I think there is a solid chance to draft 3rd with bad lotto luck (only win from a team higher in the standings). 2 would be Detroit bad-luck. If They end up drafting 5-6, then that's ok - miss out on a potential superstar, but still draft what will likely be a top-line player to build around. It is still progress.
So personally, the only real fear I have is the Flames as an organization succumbing to the pressure and scrutiny of things taking too long for fear of being compared to Buffalo. Most Canadian franchises have 'accelerated rebuilds' and often end up making mistakes. Just hope that the new building - as well as Conroy's front-row seat - alleviates some of that pressure from trying to turn things around prematurely. I am ~70% confident that he will ignore the noise, and that the ownership group continues supporting his vision and plan.
100% this! No need to add more!
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I’m starting to think that the NHL should bring in the points system for the draft order
Once you’re mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you get points for wins and such, whoever has the most points in that category picks first, then second, ect.
That way if you’re #### you get eliminated early, and have more chances to get points; but still have something to play for. That imo would play right into Calgary’s hands cause we don’t tank well.
Think they do that in the PWHL? Or I heard it from somewhere else.
Anyways keeps teams from stopping trying and makes it more competitive
Sounds like the NBA's tournament in a tournament gimmick. Draft lottery is good enough. Maybe bad teams don't win because they are bad.
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If the Flames could get rid of the contract they would. Of course, they’d have to pay someone 8M to make up for it.
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Go on because you're going to have to give me this math you're working with. The cap floor will be 70.6 million next year. Remove Huberdeau, remove Kadri and add in Wolf's raise and we're sitting at 67.1, that's without filling in the depth. Why oh why do we need to have an eight million dollar guy?
None of this matters by the way, Huberdeau ain't walking away from that money but stop acting like the cap floor is a big concern and would be a block to moving someone out.
I still think lottery luck plays a lot bigger factor than it's made out to be. The real top talent tends to be in the top 3 picks, and often there is a split from 1 to 2. The reason the first version of Edmonton's rebuild failed was because the players were not as good as they thought. Chicago never wins any cups if they don't get Kane, same with Pittsburgh and Crosby. Likewise San Jose would still be dredging out at the bottom of the standings if they didn't get Celebrini.
You need to be patient and not rush things to come out of the rebuild, which has tended to be an issue for the Canadian based teams. At this point a team like the Flames to me is still 4-5 years out because they don't have any true top end talent at forward. It will be the players they pick at the top of the next three drafts that have to lead them out of the darkness.
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From my count, that's 10 30+ UFA'a or with limited term that arent being shopped ny Chicago. Imagine how apoplectic some fans would be here if the Flames were sitting on those players and not trading them.
With Bedard and Frondell, Chicago’s already drafted the two centers that most rebuilds could only dream about. Multiple top 3 picks in the past few years too. I think insulating those kids with vets is a good thing.
