[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[D as in David]

Remembering how long day 1 of the NHL draft was last year, maybe they'll shorten it by only having the 28 essential first-round picks be selected that day this year.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

At the end of the day, I think what some posters mean when they say that the 1st is essentially a 2nd, is that it's a late first and not a mid first.

Statistically, the later you draft, the less of a chance the player turns into anything. That's reality.

We have been drafting well, so maybe Conroy turns the 1st into something good like Gridin or Potter. Still, 15th OA is better than 30th OA. That's not really up for debate.

People understand the relative position of a pick within a round but what the OP was doing was using a rhetorical trick to sway the value of that pick to make their argument look better.

[Jay Random]

I wanted to come back and address this:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I do agree with you conceptually though...picks tend to have more value at the draft and less value at the deadline to the teams trading them away...I've always thought there might be a bit of a market inefficiency to exploit where you move your aging assets for picks at the deadline, and then try to flip that pick surplus for young roster players at the draft (generally unsigned RFAs that teams are struggling to sign).

I think you're dead right.

But perhaps that particular market inefficiency is offset by the inefficiency of arranging trades in the first place, since there are only 32 players in the whole market. It's easy enough to exploit arbitrage in a market with millions of players, like stocks, currency, or commodities. Harder to do when the trading volume on an average day is zero!

So while the inefficiency is there, the opportunities to exploit it might not come along very often. Kudos to the GM who manages it, though.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Remembering how long day 1 of the NHL draft was last year, maybe they'll shorten it by only having the 28 essential first-round picks be selected that day this year.

We need a poll to determine at what number the 1st round ends.

Spoiler alert: it will be one before the Flames' pick

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We need a poll to determine at what number the 1st round ends.

Spoiler alert: it will be one before the Flames' pick

News of the future:

‘The Calgary Flames won the NHL draft lottery this year, and will be picking first overall. As a result, the first round has been cancelled, and the Flames will be exercising their pick in the really, really, really, really early second round.’

[browna]

Originally Posted by musth

Wow. i liked him previously, but I think that this may be a key to this deal going forward!

I think this fella has his head on straight, and I'd be happy to keep him and move along someone else, but as it was suggested above, Weegar can go to the left side and I think all is well. Was Weeger playing the left the last few years?

Nothing will get you further ahead in this day and age of public opinion, even with less reliance on big J journalism and the rise of social media than sucking up to the press.

Francis must be tickled to have someone like this, and is planning airport pickups and helping him move.

The notion of him being flipped asap is mostly from the armchair GMs who have the supposed perfect formula and are also upset at the trade and don’t want the player as they would rather have another magic bean than the player.

If reality if any player was to be immediately flipped in a deal, that second deal would happen almost right after before the player plays a game. Especially with a deal for Andersson, where there was no immediate trade timing urgency for the Flames.

It’s abdundantly clear Whitecloud really wanted to play here, which had to factor into being traded for, and that happiness to play here also somewhat irks those same armchair GMs.

[Roko]

Originally Posted by AC

https://twitter.com/user/status/2013711105072205954

Ain’t no way they will trade him. Seems like too good of a guy. That’s exactly the type of person the flames will covet.

[Strange Brew]

Darryl was roundly criticized for focusing too much on drafting western Canadian boys. And he definitely made some poor picks.

But let’s not deny how nice it is to cheer for a player who appreciates the culture, weather and people of the Canadian prairies. Just makes it that much sweeter when they do well.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by D as in David

People understand the relative position of a pick within a round but what the OP was doing was using a rhetorical trick to sway the value of that pick to make their argument look better.

Come on, we do it all the time. We got a 2026 3rd in the Zadorov trade. Vancouver looks to be finishing last this year and that 3rd will likely be 65th overall, which is "essentially a 2nd round pick". All things considered, as much criticizing as there was of the Zadorov trade, to come out with "essentially a 2nd round pick" makes that trade look pretty good overall.

Don't come at me saying technically a 3rd is just a 3rd. Nobody cares. Look at the bigger point being made.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Don't come at me saying technically a 3rd is just a 3rd. Nobody cares. Look at the bigger point being made.

The bigger point, in reality, is that we don’t know during the season exactly where any of these picks will fall, so comparing the last pick of one round to the first pick of the next round is irrelevant. In almost every case, the difference will be larger.

[Robbob]

I used to be on team trade Whitecloud, but now I want to keep him. I guess unless someone offers a 1st plus.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The bigger point, in reality, is that we don’t know during the season exactly where any of these picks will fall, so comparing the last pick of one round to the first pick of the next round is irrelevant. In almost every case, the difference will be larger.

But that wasn't the point that was argued. OP made the point (I think) that the return for Andersson wasn't great because we got a late 1st as the main peice, which they regrettably referred to as essentially a 2nd round pick, causing a lot of the trade's defenders to jump down OP's throat, mocking the classification of a 1st as a 2nd, which again, while technically correct, misses the main point, which is that the return of a late 1st is not great.

I don't believe any of you actually care to strictly enforce the idea that a 1st must at all times be referred to as a 1st and a 2nd must at all times be referred to as a 2nd, like some kind of a pick classification police. We all use slight exaggerations to make a point.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Darryl was roundly criticized for focusing too much on drafting western Canadian boys. And he definitely made some poor picks.

But let’s not deny how nice it is to cheer for a player who appreciates the culture, weather and people of the Canadian prairies. Just makes it that much sweeter when they do well.

It's very important because Calgary isn't a destination. That only comes when the team is good. That said, rest of the organization also has to be aligned starting with the owner.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

But that wasn't the point that was argued. OP made the point (I think) that the return for Andersson wasn't great because we got a late 1st as the main peice, which they regrettably referred to as essentially a 2nd round pick, causing a lot of the trade's defenders to jump down OP's throat, mocking the classification of a 1st as a 2nd, which again, while technically correct, misses the main point, which is that the return of a late 1st is not great.

The only teams paying large prices for veterans are contenders, and contenders pick late in the round. That’s just the way it is.

It would carry more weight if the OP had not fixated on the one pick and ignored the other pieces of the deal.

Instead of keeping Whitecloud for two and a half years, the Knights traded a late 1st, a 2nd (position to be determined) and a marginal prospect to upgrade him to Andersson for five months. That’s a big price to pay for that upgrade. Nobody else was offering as much.

[dino7c]

Sign me up for these picks being late...you mean the Oilers aren't getting past round two again in the McDavid era!?

[TheScorpion]

In the back half of the first round, teams are already becoming increasingly dependent on individual lists too ... Flames would've picked Potter at 22 or 32

[Spurly]

Originally Posted by D as in David

People understand the relative position of a pick within a round but what the OP was doing was using a rhetorical trick to sway the value of that pick to make their argument look better.

Statisticly a first round pick is a first round pick

[combustiblefuel]

Im okay with the haul . Would have preferred bostons offer but I wanted Whitecloud in the Hanifin trade. Double ege sword is they got White cloud but not in the ideal age range.

Who knows one of those picks could be another Dougie Hamilton.. I mean Rasmus Andersson. Dating my self with that joke on cp lol

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Come on, we do it all the time. .

Which doesn't make it correct.

Instead of saying "it's really a second round pick," simply say "it's a late first".

[Robbob]

The thing is that a lot of the prospects that people are wanting as part of the deals are players picked in that range (25-32). Bystedt, Poitros, O'Reilly, Bourque, Letourneau, Hemming, Musty, Cowan, Ritchie, etc. Even our own Grindin and Potter. There are probably some I missed, but to say late picks are not valued is not being sensible. Of course lottery picks are better, but those are not picks traded around the deadline.