[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

"Just trade him for anything before he gets hurt and to help our pick"

Trades him for a first, another 2nd or first, player worth at least a 2nd, a C prospect.

Votes faceplant with the Oiler trolls lol

The return itself is fine.

But I can see why some in that group (probably not Rhett44), would vote Face plant.

Conroy was able to salvage it a bit, but the reality is by not moving sooner (sometime between the 2024 draft and 2025 trade deadline), Conroy backed himself into a corner again where the player held all the power.

And I think some do see that as a face plant regardless of the return he was able to salvage in this case, just the optics of potential trades that were turned down that were seen as better value, and the fact it's Vegas again were going to have some leaning that way.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The return itself is fine.

But I can see why some in that group (probably not Rhett44), would vote Face plant.

Conroy was able to salvage it a bit, but the reality is by not moving sooner (sometime between the 2024 draft and 2025 trade deadline), Conroy backed himself into a corner again where the player held all the power.

And I think some do see that as a face plant irregardless of the return he was able to salvage in this case.

So if Conroy traded Andersson for a bad return a year ago, that would have been better than trading him for a good return now?

I think some posters worry too much about their own notions of who holds the power.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So if Conroy traded Andersson for a bad return a year ago, that would have been better than trading him for a good return now?

I think some posters worry too much about their own notions of who holds the power.

Well I don't think we know if it would have been a better or worse return a year or 18 months ago.

And IMO the return itself now is fine (and becomes really good if they can flip Whitecloud for a 1st like I'll think they will be able to).

But I think there is valid concerns that this type of thing happened again where a player really forced the organizations hand by leveraging a NTC combined with the power of his contract renewal availability.

And let's be honest Conroy didn't seem too happy about the whole thing in his interviews either.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

But I think there is valid concerns that this type of thing happened again where a player really forced the organizations hand by leveraging a NTC combined with the power of his contract renewal availability.

And let's be honest Conroy didn't seem too happy about the whole thing in his interviews either.

well he's seen this move before. Let's hope he's learned the lesson now and moves Coleman before he enters the final year of his contract.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Well I don't think we know if it would have been a better or worse return a year or 18 months ago.

Given the season Andersson was having last year, he would not have been a hot commodity at the deadline. I think it's pretty safe to say the return would have been at least a 1st, but considerably less than a 1st, a 2nd, and a decent roster player.

I expect Conroy & Co. have a valuation for every player on the roster, and if they get an offer equal to that, they'll listen. I think if Vegas had offered this deal for Andersson a year ago, he would have been traded then.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Given the season Andersson was having last year, he would not have been a hot commodity at the deadline. I think it's pretty safe to say the return would have been at least a 1st, but considerably less than a 1st, a 2nd, and a decent roster player.

I expect Conroy & Co. have a valuation for every player on the roster, and if they get an offer equal to that, they'll listen. I think if Vegas had offered this deal for Andersson a year ago, he would have been traded then.

Yeah I don't disagree, especially with the foot injury, my personal feeling on this is likely that the breakdown was something like

2024 Draft > Now > 2025 Trade Deadline

But it's tough for us to know with certainty one way or another.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah I don't disagree, especially with the foot injury, my personal feeling on this is likely that the breakdown was something like

2024 Draft > Now > 2025 Trade Deadline

But it's tough for us to know with certainty one way or another.

You have to bear in mind that draft day is when GMs are most willing to part with players and least willing to part with picks. I think it would have been tough sledding to get a 1st and a 2nd out of most GMs at that time of year.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You have to bear in mind that draft day is when GMs are most willing to part with players and least willing to part with picks. I think it would have been tough sledding to get a 1st and a 2nd out of most GMs at that time of year.

The most comparable deal would have been Sergachev who returned Geekie, Moser, and a 2nd.

So to your point a more prospect heavy deal, and Moser has really worked out great for them.

I do remember there being rumors that both Buffalo and Detroit were willing to move their 1sts for help on defense that draft - but who knows if that was true because nothing ever came to fruition.

I do agree with you conceptually though...picks tend to have more value at the draft and less value at the deadline to the teams trading them away...I've always thought there might be a bit of a market inefficiency to exploit where you move your aging assets for picks at the deadline, and then try to flip that pick surplus for young roster players at the draft (generally unsigned RFAs that teams are struggling to sign).

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Given the season Andersson was having last year, he would not have been a hot commodity at the deadline.

And I remember that there were reports on deadline day that the teams that were inquiring about him weren't making serious offers that would have made Conroy consider trading him even with the team being in a playoff hunt.

They were probably trying to take advantage of the fact he was having a bad season to try and get him at a discount.

[traptor]

Hypothetically, if we could have dealt him last year for the Carlo deal versus what we got this year, I would have made the trade last season.

Trading Rasmus last season for the Carlo deal would have been close to a similar value return, but it would have translated into far more McKenna points over the course of a full season, with no replacement piece propping up the roster.

Whitecloud seems like a beauty and definitely has positive value as he is a good defender with term on a value contract, but given the choice, I would have preferred a second-round–equivalent pick over him.

This is because he is going to help bridge the gap left by losing Andersson, and the Flames aren’t going to stumble as much as some people expected because Whitecloud is a solid defender. The impact in standings from going Andersson to Whitecloud, especially over only ~30 games, is minimal. At most, you’re probably talking about a 1–2 win difference, which amounts to maybe a single draft position.


I think it's an okay trade we made. I hope they flip Whitecloud not because I don't like him but because I do think he could have sneaky good value and turn the Rasmus deal into a great one.

[Shazam]

Where is Andersson going to slot in the VGK D lineup?

[AFireInside]

I don't see how it's a great return to be honest. We got what essentially amounts to 2nd round picks unless something crazy happens. We'll be very lucky if any of those picks turn into a decent third line player.

It's not horrible, but it's not great either. To be fair I don't mind Whitecloud at all either.

[Spurly]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

I don't see how it's a great return to be honest. We got what essentially amounts to 2nd round picks unless something crazy happens. We'll be very lucky if any of those picks turn into a decent third line player.

It's not horrible, but it's not great either. To be fair I don't mind Whitecloud at all either.

Except it’s a first, and second. That could be 2 firsts, and if Zack is traded, could be 3 fists, and a prospect. I don’t see any downside to this trade.

I don’t get your presumption, that a late first is a second. Spin it how ever you want I guess, but a first is a first.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Spurly

Except it’s a first, and second. That could be 2 firsts, and if Zack is traded, could be 3 fists, and a prospect. I don’t see any downside to this trade.

I don’t get your presumption, that a late first is a second. Spin it how ever you want I guess, but a first is a first.

It's the New Math. 1=2, everybody knows that.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It's the New Math. 1=2, everybody knows that.

1 First equals two fists

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It's the New Math. 1=2, everybody knows that.

Especially when that 1st is currently 24th overall, which is almost 40, with an entire season to go to see what it actually is.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

I don't see how it's a great return to be honest. We got what essentially amounts to 2nd round picks unless something crazy happens. We'll be very lucky if any of those picks turn into a decent third line player.

It's not horrible, but it's not great either. To be fair I don't mind Whitecloud at all either.

Rasmus Anderson was a second round pick.

[Roof-Daddy]

I mean, the 1st is so late in the 1st that we might as well call it a 4th.

The prospect we got is 22, so basically 30 and Whitecloud is 29 so pretty much 40 already.

Total faceplant

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I mean, the 1st is so late in the 1st that we might as well call it a 4th.

The prospect we got is 22, so basically 30 and Whitecloud is 29 so pretty much 40 already.

Total faceplant

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[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Spurly

Except it’s a first, and second. That could be 2 firsts, and if Zack is traded, could be 3 fists, and a prospect. I don’t see any downside to this trade.

I don’t get your presumption, that a late first is a second. Spin it how ever you want I guess, but a first is a first.

There's a good chance Vegas will end up being one of the top teams, so it's essentially a 2nd round pick, it's not a complicated concept. Is there much difference between the 28th overall pick and the 34th overall pick? No.

It doesn't mean it can't be a great pick, odds are it won't be, as I said with a pick in that range we'll be very lucky to get a solid 3rd line player.

The return is what it is, but it's nothing to be excited about.

I do however like Whitecloud, and I wouldn't mind if he stuck around.

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Rasmus Anderson was a second round pick.

So were Mason McDonald and Tyler Parsons, what's your point? It can be a good pick, odds are they won't play a single game in the nhl. Do you think there's a huge difference between picking 28th overall and 40th? Probably not. I could be wrong. I'm not going to be particularly excited about a pick that late in the 1st.

I don't hate the return necessarily, but it's not "good".