Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Slava]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/car...eech-9.7052725

Prime Minister Mark Carney delivered a frank assessment of how he views the world in a provocative speech in Davos, Switzerland, on Tuesday

Key excerpt
Middle powers must act together because if you are not at the table, you are on the menu. Great powers can afford to go it alone. They have the market size, the military capacity, the leverage to dictate terms. Middle powers do not. But when we only negotiate bilaterally with a hegemon, we negotiate from weakness. We accept what is offered. We compete with each other to be the most accommodating. This is not sovereignty. It is the performance of sovereignty while accepting subordination. What would it mean for middle powers to "live in truth"? It means naming reality. Stop invoking the "rules-based international order" as though it still functions as advertised. Call the system what it is: a period where the most powerful pursue their interests using economic integration as a weapon of coercion.

Amazing speech and you can read the full text here.

https://paulwells.substack.com/p/the...dRedirect=true

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

What if Canada invaded China first?

Just bombard them with poutine, maple syrup and genuine Montreal smoked meat!

Voyons donc! L'Army des Bonhommes de Neige shall take Shanghai from ze North! Au Sud ze Beavers riding Canada Geese shall engage in Hong Kong! Ze Elk contingent tell me zat zey come down from Mongolia to march upon Beijing!

The rest shall be chain-smoking and drunken rural Quebecois grandpas and hosers! Then...and only then...do we release the Lumberjacks! A veritable Armada of Plaid!

They'd never see it coming...

You should see what they serve at the Tim Horton's in China. It's like 1st world compared to our 5th world kyit they serve here.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

Feels like we really are cutting ties with the US.

They cut ties with us, we just need to untangle the knot. With a flamethrower.

[puffnstuff]

Also from the Carney speech
"The powerful have their power. But we have something too — the capacity to stop pretending, to name reality, to build our strength at home, and to act together. That is Canada’s path. We choose it openly and confidently."

[TherapyforGlencross]

Carney also said: You cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through integration, when integration becomes the source of your subordination

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Also from the Carney speech
"The powerful have their power. But we have something too — the capacity to stop pretending, to name reality, to build our strength at home, and to act together. That is Canada’s path. We choose it openly and confidently."

We aren’t acting together at home though. I don’t think we ever will. Even just reading some of the comments online this forum, always a reason to justify regionalism.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Has Canada decided on the F35 fighter, or is the Gripen still a possibility? The smart play is to tell the Americans to go #### themselves and bring the manufacturing capacity of the Gripen to Canada. I hope Carney recognizes this as a move to greater sovereignty.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Amazing speech and you can read the full text here.

https://paulwells.substack.com/p/the...dRedirect=true

I would find it hard to believe if anyone, regardless of what they thought about Carney, could not be filled with pride and confidence that he’s leading this country after that speech.

A stark and welcome change after the Trudeau/PP show we’ve been subjected to in recent years.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Has Canada decided on the F35 fighter, or is the Gripen still a possibility? The smart play is to tell the Americans to go #### themselves and bring the manufacturing capacity of the Gripen to Canada. I hope Carney recognizes this as a move to greater sovereignty.

I don’t think that’s smart at all.

You push Trump / America they really will invade. There is no winning a war against America. Current course and quiet economic unentanglement while telling Trump whatever he wants to hear is best move. Then just shift your country away as much as as possible diplomatically, economically, etc.

You can tell he’s already thinking about it. Invasion is likely on the table for him.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Has Canada decided on the F35 fighter, or is the Gripen still a possibility? The smart play is to tell the Americans to go #### themselves and bring the manufacturing capacity of the Gripen to Canada. I hope Carney recognizes this as a move to greater sovereignty.

I keep waiting for news on this. The only thing I have seen recently is that Saab has upped their benefits package to Canada stating that going with the Gripen will result in 12,600 jobs in Canada with increased supply chain benefits within Canada and a growing list of customers wanting to buy Gripens in the EU.

It really seems like a no-brainer at this point. In one option we are a customer to buy military equipment from a nation that is threatening to conquer us (and they get to hold the kill switch on the equipment). In the other option we are a partner and a builder and are given the ability to create jobs and eventually export equipment made in Canada.

I think that as long as Canada accepts the first batch of F35s, specifically for when we have joint ventures with the US, we can shift to the Gripen for future purchasing as being "better suited to our climate" and "better for our economy" or other soft rationale that shouldn't raise eyebrows. Anyone who is arguing for the F35 can be silenced because we did buy a few.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

Feels like we really are cutting ties with the US.

I don’t think it’s cutting ties.

If you go through Carneys speech it’s a recognition that major powers act in naked self interest. This was always true with how China leveraged its power and now it’s acknowledging that the US acts the same.

So not so much cutting ties but acknowledging that we have no leverage when negotiating terms against the US so need to ensure we limit the damage major powers can do to us.

So it’s an honest assessment of the state of the world and what has changed

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Reading that article should make anyone with at least half a brain relieved that Carney and not Poilievre won last spring. There is no way PP possesses even a fraction of the understanding of the world economy and the relationships that make it run like Carney does.

Can you imagine Pollievre even attempting such a speech? In my mind, he'd probably have similar talking points like Mike Johnson, where he'll just be the lapdog to Trump and go with with whatever Trump wants.

Doesn't help that every time I think of Pollievre, I think of that guy on This Hour has 22 Min that plays him lol.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

There is no winning a war against America.

There's no winning a conventional war against America. If Trump truly was hell-bent on conquest of Canada, our military would be largely destroyed within the first 48-72 hours.

However, as was shown in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq, you can win an unconventional war against America. Partisan resistance fighters (integrated with whatever remains of Canada's conventional forces) fighting asymmetrically can make the cost in American lives unbearable to the US people. An invasion of Canada, a longtime friendly partner and NATO ally, would already be incredibly unpopular in the US from the moment it began. When there's body bags of US military personnel being sent home daily, it would become even more unpopular. The anti-war protests seen in response to Vietnam and Iraq would be nothing compared to the protests in the USA against an invasion of Canada. Maybe -- maybe -- that might be enough for Republican politicians to finally start opposing Trump's madness or perhaps it would be the impetus for a popular anti-government uprising among US citizens.

Of course, the cost to Canadian lives in this scenario would be immense, so everyone should hope that cooler heads prevail and we never have to put this theory to the test, but I genuinely believe that on a long enough timeline Canadian partisan resistance fighters in combination with anti-regime uprisings in America could successfully resist US annexation and occupation.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don’t think it’s cutting ties.

If you go through Carneys speech it’s a recognition that major powers act in naked self interest. This was always true with how China leveraged its power and now it’s acknowledging that the US acts the same.

So not so much cutting ties but acknowledging that we have no leverage when negotiating terms against the US so need to ensure we limit the damage major powers can do to us.

So it’s an honest assessment of the state of the world and what has changed

It was always this way. Always has been always will.

[surferguy]

I’ve heard rumblings of Europe and Canada dumping US Treasury bonds as a weapon. I don’t know anything about it but is a card that NATO holds?

[direwolf]

So proud to have this guy as our PM.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by Slava

Amazing speech and you can read the full text here.

https://paulwells.substack.com/p/the...dRedirect=true

One line coalesced my thoughts:

Nostalgia is not a strategy.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

However, as was shown in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq, you can win an unconventional war against America. Partisan resistance fighters (integrated with whatever remains of Canada's conventional forces) fighting asymmetrically can make the cost in American lives unbearable to the US people. An invasion of Canada, a longtime friendly partner and NATO ally, would already be incredibly unpopular in the US from the moment it began. When there's body bags of US military personnel being sent home daily, it would become even more unpopular. The anti-war protests seen in response to Vietnam and Iraq would be nothing compared to the protests in the USA against an invasion of Canada. Maybe -- maybe -- that might be enough for Republican politicians to finally start opposing Trump's madness or perhaps it would be the impetus for a popular anti-government uprising among US citizens.

The United States has seen attacks on their soil, but have never had their country be on the front line since what? The Civil war?

We look like them. We sound like them. We speak the same language. Play the same sports. Watch the same entertainment. This wouldn't be roadside IEDs maiming soldiers outside of Mosul. This would curbside explosives on civilian street corners in Atlanta or Dallas.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Wolven

It really seems like a no-brainer at this point.

It's a complete no-brainer. The industrial benefits are better and we're otherwise buying planes where Donald Trump... who is presently threatening an allies territorial integrity... will have a kill switch. Unacceptable.

[IliketoPuck]

Incredible speech by Carney. Timely, forceful, clear eyed.

Wondering if Canada will chart a path towards integrating with / joining the EU.