[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I noticed that too.

Having Whitecloud on the roster makes it a lot more feasible to trade Weegar. A blue line where the most experienced guy in the top 4 is Bahl would be scary.

It would be - but I'm not sure why it matters. You're going to be bad regardless. Everything should be about making the future Flames teams better. You don't get penalized in future years for being extra terrible in the past.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

What's your point?

The math doesn't work for getting these guys playing time. The benefit of moving Ras out was to get these guys icetime. Whitecloud is contrary to that stated goal.

No one stated that goal. The purpose of moving Rasmus was to get value for an expiring contract, and to add picks.

But Parekh will get powerplay time that Andersson was using. And Brzu will pick up a few minutes because Whitecloud won’t play as much as Andersson. Brzu is only 21 - he can’t handle a lot more yet.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No one stated that goal. The purpose of moving Rasmus was to get value for an expiring contract, and to add picks.

But Parekh will get powerplay time that Andersson was using. And Brzu will pick up a few minutes because Whitecloud won’t play as much as Andersson. Brzu is only 21 - he can’t handle a lot more yet.

“And, you know, we’re going to try to get young guys in. You know, that’s really the goal right now” -Craig Conroy, literally yesterday. The GM said exactly what you claimed no one said lol. Watching you post is painful

https://flamesnation.ca/news/5-key-q...ndersson-trade

Try and keep up Mr Hutz

[Rick M.]

I wonder if Whitecloud will play tonight.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

If we bottom out the rest of this season, land a top 5 pick next year in 2027, i see our rebuild finishing by the end of next year.

Top 6 Forwards:
Reschny
Potter
Gridin
Coronato
Outside chances of Wyttenbach, Basha, Honzek.

Defence:
Parekh
Bruz
Kuz
Outside chances of Mews, Morin

Goalies
Wolf
Cooley

Our goaltending is already set for year to come. Adding four more first round players in 2026 and 2027 adds to potential top 6 players. We are rounding out quite nicely and Conroy has done an exceptional job in stockpiling the cupboard. One or two more defenceman would do Calgary wonders, along with adding a top drafted centre either this year or next.

This looks grim, especially up front.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

It would be - but I'm not sure why it matters. You're going to be bad regardless. Everything should be about making the future Flames teams better. You don't get penalized in future years for being extra terrible in the past.

I think it is very ill-advised to leave your defence completely void of any NHL experience. Actually, I think that’s how a rebuild fails. Rookies should not be playing on the same pairing, having NHL capable veterans on each pairing will do wonders for development.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

I think it is very ill-advised to leave your defence completely void of any NHL experience. Actually, I think that’s how a rebuild fails. Rookies should not be playing on the same pairing, having NHL capable veterans on each pairing will do wonders for development.

If you can land a 1st+ for Weegar, then trade a 3rd/4th for NHL capable veteran to play if you think it matters.

[Infinit47]

I'm going to start calling Whitecloud Schrodinger's defenseman. He is simultaneously so bad that his inclusion in the deal proves how terrible Craig Conroy is as a GM, and so good that he is going to prevent Parekh from playing and developing.

This trade was never going to turn the franchise around, it's going to build depth for the Flames, and I think it will help accomplish that

[Braden]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

This looks grim, especially up front.

I thought the same but its also is missing our 4 firsts this year and next plus 2 or so other firsts we could accumulate. The forward group is definitely looking small

[Vinny01]

Ultimately this is a pretty solid return for a rental but ideally this would have never got to the rental stage. The flames holding the asset longer has resulted in picks years down the road, a throwaway prospect and veteran bottom pair Dman.

I think the Zadorov return of a 3rd and 5th is closer to Whiteclouds value than the 2nd I am seeing others think he can land.

End of the day the Flams could have received a NHL ready prospect and pick for this year if they dealt him last year. Maybe the flames are just not going to deal with Treliving or more likely they wanted to push for the playoffs. The Flames held firm and made a valiant run and almost made the playoffs but they didn’t and the deal was going to come in the summer.

Come summer the teams that had interest wouldn’t be able to get an extension unless it was Vegas and all the leverage goes to the player. Despite some hope it could work out in an extend and trade but Andersson held firm he wouldn’t do that and the Flames did well in those circumstances. Just not ideal they put themselves in that spot

[Royle9]

At the end of the day, you cant be mad at Whitecloud and you cant be mad at Rasmus (kinda/sorta)

I personally have nothing against Whitecloud, he's a stopgap or could be flipped and ultimately its "meh" for me at this point.
Rasmus flexed his muscle at the 11th hour which he was more than welcome to do at any point, but chose to work with Craig for a large chunk of the discussions right up until it was extension talk time. It's a big decision for him, I get it.

What doesn't sit well is the idea that we let another roster player hold us hostage with signing demands and ultimately cost the team a TON of trade value, AGAIN. This after saying "we cannot let another Hannifin situation happen".
That's the one part that doesn't sit right with me personally, CGY acted in good faith and in the best interest as Rasmus as a person and not a contract and ultimately got burned again to some extent.

I hope we've learned that lesson, don't hold onto these guys just because they're "good people" because at the end of the day you have a business to run and a team to make better. The balls in Craig's court with at least 2 more guys garnering significant interest, arguably Coleman having more value now than Kadri for the time being. But the time is now, both guys have a bit more term but lets get maximum value now at a time where we should be pressing the "re-se_..biggle button" and building for the future.

[VilleN]

Do we all forget how bad Andersson was last year? I don't know that we're getting much better value had we traded him last year. I'm guessing there would've been a lot more hesitancy around trading for him.

[dissentowner]

People keep saying this was good value for a rental. Let's be honest here, this is not a rental, we all know Andersson has every intention of signing there. We just didn't get the extra return for it being done on our side.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

This looks grim, especially up front.

That list does not include who we draft this year and next year. It does not look grim if we draft McKenna, Stenberg or Lawrence this year IMO.

Next year if we add another top 5 pick, it looks great IMO.

[SutterBrother]

How many retention slots do we get this year? 3?

Using one for $2 mil for the sake of Vegas seems like it might damage what we can do with Kadri and Coleman given their bigger tickets?

Edit - appears we have 1 slot left. Coleman makes 5m.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

How many retention slots do we get this year? 3?

Using one for $2 mil for the sake of Vegas seems like it might damage what we can do with Kadri and Coleman given their bigger tickets?

They might retain on Coleman. It wouldn't be a huge hit and it comes off the books after next season.

I'm less certain they retain on Kadri due to the length of his remaining contract, but I'm even less certain that he's traded this year at all. His play has cratered of late, it's a big risk long term for anyone who trades for him, the return is not likely to be all that great, and then you add long-term retention as possibly a part of the deal. Instead, you keep him and let him mentor the younger guys, along with Huberdeau, Weegar, and Backlund of course. That's your mentorship group through the rebuild.

[Roko]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

How many retention slots do we get this year? 3?

Using one for $2 mil for the sake of Vegas seems like it might damage what we can do with Kadri and Coleman given their bigger tickets?

Just means the flames have to take a body back or a salary dump which means blocking more spots for young guys. I think Coleman is easy to fit. Save the retention for Kadri

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Do we all forget how bad Andersson was last year? I don't know that we're getting much better value had we traded him last year. I'm guessing there would've been a lot more hesitancy around trading for him.

It has been reported the Leafs pivoted to Carlo after they couldn’t get a deal done on Andersson. We know at least their top 5 protected 1st, Fraser Minten and a 4th were on the table.

While the value of it all likely favors the leafs deal with that team struggling relative to expectations. The issue with the Vegas return is the picks are in 2027 and 2028 so a year and a half to 2.5 years from now. The team is trying to rebuild and this deal has slowed it down some. Now we are changing our tune hoping the Hanifin pick becomes pick 32 so we can get an extra 1st which would make the Hanifin deal weaker.

End of the day it all comes down to how those picks are used. Sven for a 2nd seemed like a bad trade at the time but the flames hit on that pick and we have these new assets as a result of that Sven deal 11 years ago.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

People keep saying this was good value for a rental. Let's be honest here, this is not a rental, we all know Andersson has every intention of signing there. We just didn't get the extra return for it being done on our side.

If Vegas is competing against themselves, they’re not going to pay the extension price. Instead, they paid an aggressive rental price and clearly no one had offers that were better, with knowledge he probably wouldn't stick around after.

[fotze2]

This is their life, not yours. You don't get a say because you were cursed to be a Flames fan.