[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

From my perspective, I actually want the picks more than the prospects.

I want the picks in the hands of our scouting staff, because ultimately this organization is only going to go as far as those scouts, and the execution on draft day will take them. Get them picks, let them get better through experience, and give them the confidence and room to take big ass swings on draft day.

The only advantage of a prospect is that you can assess the actual player. But if prospects are traded because they are seen as expendable, then they are unlikely to be blue chippers (which a lot of people seem to think is possible in their trade proposals).

Think of the prospects the Flames have traded. Guys like Pelletier, Baertschi, Petterson.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Very late 1st is essentially a 2nd and a late 2nd a 3rd at the end of the day.

There is absolutely no way a 1st-round pick can be any later than 32nd overall. A 2nd could be as low as 64th. Likewise, a 3rd could be as low as 96th. For '27 and '28 picks, we have no way of knowing. It would take phenomenal luck to trade for a 2nd in '28 and have it turn out to be the 33rd overall pick, and that is the very best-case scenario.

Denigrating the value of the return this way is silly.

[DiracSpike]

Yeah not really getting the hate this trade is getting. Rating it on the prospect side of things is tough because we don’t know what was on the table and projecting players is tough, but on the draft pick side we made out really well. First plus a second with a half decent chance of another first? For a guy that has three months left on his contract to UFA? Seems pretty good and by far the best return on a sell trade I can ever remember the flames doing. Besides, the main benefit of this trade is dumping one of our best players to try and augment the tank.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Money in, Money out. It's an asset of a position that we're overloaded with.

I view Whitecloud as an asset-add, and salary balance.

Would you be happier if Whitecloud was just omitted? Gain as many assets as you can in any trade when you're doing quantity.

Even if he isn't traded right away, he likely will be in the next 1-2 years - bang, more return.

Like I said, it's a slog.

I dont know why people dont get this...Vegas needs cap room and a spot for Ras to play

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Though if I’m being honest I had a hard time believing he would sign long term in Boston, I don’t see them competing for a cup any time soon.

i'm not sure he will with LV either - between their goalies and the Central division...but we shall see.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

We didn't get two high picks.

The 1st is the Vegas 1st which is closer to a 2nd. It will be the last few picks of the 1st round. And the 2nd is basically a 3rd.

How can a first round pick be closer to a second?

And Vegas hasn’t gotten to the point where they are assured of being in the top of the league in 2027.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by robertsfanatic

i'm not sure he will with LV either - between their goalies and the Central division...but we shall see.

The great central that blows it against the Oilers every year

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The great central that blows it against the Oilers every year

the Oilers have horsehoes...god i hate them.

[krynski]

I honestly think this was the best deal the Flames were going to get.

The Flames lost the trade because they gave up the best player- there’s no if/ands/buts about it. He is currently the best asset in the mix. However, he wasn’t going to be an Flames asset next year regardless. He was going to be gone- last thing the Flames needed was someone to walk at free agency.

This solidifies that a rebuild is happening. Young assets and picks are very hard for organizations to part with. I’m excited for the times to come (though I know it’s going to be a hard couple of years).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There is absolutely no way a 1st-round pick can be any later than 32nd overall. A 2nd could be as low as 64th. Likewise, a 3rd could be as low as 96th. For '27 and '28 picks, we have no way of knowing. It would take phenomenal luck to trade for a 2nd in '28 and have it turn out to be the 33rd overall pick, and that is the very best-case scenario.

Denigrating the value of the return this way is silly.

TBF I always try to think of picks as overall numbers just to note that the constant talk off getting first rounders is somewhat less meaningful when you consider where that pick is from a contender.

That said, the Flames drafted Gridin 28th overall. Cullen Potter (who looks decent) 32 OA. Bourque, who some people wanted from Dallas, was 30 OA.
That area of the draft is where you can get skilled guys with some question marks - size, defence, etc. And they can work out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Here's another reason why I really don't like this trade. I hate trading for picks multiple years down the road. That feeds into the Murray Edwards narrative that rebiggles take too long and put the club in endless loop of being bad (see Buffalo). What we traded for was a 1st round pick that is two drafts away. The conditional second rounder is three drafts away. Vegas is playing with our draft capital until it is used, so we are not seeing primary return on this deal for at least two or more years. That's not good when you're hoping to build critical mass through the draft.

I think it is pretty common to consider a top 10 pick to be a D+1 to D+2 arrival to the team, and then another year or two before they really start contributing as hoped. A mid to late first rounder is probably a D+2 to D+3 for arrival and the two years of development as well. Anything outside of the first round is usually a D+3 or greater arrival (the new dynamic of access to college could delay arrivals in systems to now as much as D+5) and then the development time for making the jump to the club of a year or more. We can then start to see where players can potentially get plugged into the roster and depth chart. So, with the Vegas picks we just received, they are two drafts or more away, and then likely four or five years away from cracking the team. We just moved Andersson for a player that won't likely be useful until 2030-something if at all. That's the hard pill to swallow. This team will be bottoming out just about time the new barn opens rather than having a mess of top picks filtering into the lineup. I can understand Edwards' trepedation when you start looking at the calendar and when these draft picks turn into something. I hate long-term futures trades for that part and Vegas hornswaggled Conroy into two deals like that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

How can a first round pick be closer to a second?

And Vegas hasn’t gotten to the point where they are assured of being in the top of the league in 2027.

He’s just trying to make the trade sound worse. Ignoring the fact that any first rounder from a contender is going to be in the high 20s at least.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I dont know why people dont get this...Vegas needs cap room and a spot for Ras to play

If you look at their D he was the only one who (a) they could give up and (b) Calgary would remotely want, even as a flip.

[Snuffleupagus]

Look on the bright side folks.

Flames got a 1st, at least a 2nd, a decent Dman, a prospect and 10 years of stares for a bust winger in Baertschi.

[Hackey]

A 25th pick and a 35th pick probably are pretty similar in terms of the players available. Even more so in the later rounds. I wasn't expecting Rasmus to return more than a late 1st and some change anyways though.

It does kind of suck that Vegas basically plays the Flames twice though. If Andersson signs there which is probably reasonably likely that's two extensions the Flames got no value out of.

[YyjFlames]

My take away from this over the top thread is that Calgary needs a Stenberg or a McKenna to get excited about.

The team is obviously rebuilding. It’s at the darkest point of this period, before they really have that big name razzle dazzle superstar to get excited about (I know Parekh is a little bit about that).

Once they get that guy—and Calgary will get him—we can really focus on the future, rather than dwell in the minutia of how this team is managed.

[Royle9]

The point is the difference in value between the 30th pick and the 35th pick is not much at all.

Every team CGY was negotiating with had to include a 1st and there were other teams with far better odds of that first being in the 15-20 range than 25-32nd.

The value between 15th pick and 30th pick is substantial, like almost never gets moved levels of capital.

I’d much rather the 15th pick than 30th & 60th but maybe it’s just me.


Now if they flipped White cloud into a late 1st or early 2nd+ then it’s a home run, but that remains to be seen and probably unlikely.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I don’t think the return for Coleman is much different at the trade deadline this year versus next year. I think he’s worthy of a first but won’t get you two firsts this year nor would he get you a first and a top tier prospect. There’s no urgency imo unless you desperately want an extra 3rd rounder or someone’s B- prospect.

Ditto Kadri but for different reasons. His contract length is the issue. And the desire to trade him now because otherwise he’ll be worse next year… well, it’s not like that’s a secret to the counterparty. I don’t think his value this year will be materially different than next year. You have diminishing skills vs reduced contract burden/risk. It cancels out imo.

[dino7c]

Vegas could have got him free in the summer...they paid this for one run

[traptor]

Not flipping Whitecloud is a big L